Posted by Christina Websell on September 7, 2010, 1:46 pm
> On 03/09/2010 15:49, Ian B wrote:
>>
>> Of course it's always advisable to avoid getting a cut dirty. There are
>> lots
>> of diseases that like to make their way into the body via a dirty wound.
>> Legionella isn't one of them.
>>
> Interesting. I did wonder if it was an over-reaction by what is becoming
> an overly elfin safety conscious society. I am surprised so many gardeners
> wear gloves though to handle compost. It sounds like it may be a wise
> thing to do?
> Last year I ended up with a fungal infection on both knees - I think it
> was due to kneeling on the bare soil while planting seedlings and wearing
> shorts. It took three months to get rid of the infection with anti-fungal
> creams - it was damn persistent. I guess the abrasion of the soil on the
> bare skin was enough to introduce the spores under the skin, especially
> while putting weight on my knees.
> I've just been kneeling and planting more seedlings today, but kept stout
> jeans on despite the heat. My back just won't take stooping for long
> nowadays.
I know exactly what you need, those wonderful gel-filled knee pads with
velcro attachments at the back that I sent to my German friend as part of
her birthday parcel today.
Tina
Posted by uriel13 on September 4, 2010, 7:11 pm
'Ian B[_3_ Wrote:
> ;899303']David in Normandy wrote:-
> Quote: "Compost manufacturers are considering putting warnings about
> Legionnaires' disease on their bags following advice from the Royal
> Horticultural Society."
>
> The full article:
> 'Potting plants could cause Legionnaires' disease - Telegraph'
>
(http://tinyurl.com/24osbf2 )
>
> Personally I enjoy getting my hands into the compost, it is half the
> fun of potting up plants!-
>
> Hmm, I vote "dubious" for the claims of this article. I have some
> knowledge
> of legionella as I used to be a building services engineer (polite term
> for
> maintenance man) and a significant part of that is legionella
> precautions.
>
> Legionella bacteria is all around us in the evironment. It's in all our
>
> water. It is, under normal circumstances, harmless. It only becomes
> dangerous when inhaled in a fine water spray, at which point it is able
> to
> circumvent the body's natural defences against bacterial attack. We must
>
> remember that the environment is full of things that want to do us
> harm,and
> the reason we're here as a species is that the body has over billions of
>
> years of evolution developed all kinds of protective mechanisms; which
> is
> why disabling the immune system causes a horrible death from opportunist
>
> infections. Once your protections are down, it's not *if* you will get
> ill,
> but *when* you will get ill.
>
> This is based on one particular case, and a supposition by the doctors
> treating the man. It's a guess that he caught the infection from
> compost.
> They have no proof, and cannot have proof; the only facts they have are
> that
> he caught legionella, and had handled compost with a cut hand. But
> correlation does not equal causation. He might have caught it from a
> spray
> of water he does not even remember to tell them about.
>
> So far as I am aware there are no known cases of legionella (except this
>
> one, now, apparently) in which it has been caught by this route of
> infection, through a skin lesion. If legionella were capable of
> infecting us
> this way, it would be epidemic. But it isn't. Just rinsing a cut under
> tap
> water- a very common first aid- would lead to infections, from
> legionella
> infected water getting into the cut. Swimmers would catch it. People
> handling garden soil would routinely catch it. Farmers dealing with
> water
> troughs for animals would catch it. And so on.
>
> But they don't. It is even very hard to catch from fine water sprays.
> Only
> very high concentrations of the bacterium combined with a lack of water
>
> treatment cause outbreaks. It only became a threat when cooling systems
>
> using water sprays became commonplace, an environment in which the
> bacterium
> thrives as the water is in a closed loop and can thus build up bacterial
>
> concentrations; which is why engineers have to have a regime of bromine
>
> treatment.
>
> So I call foul on this. It's a supposition, not a scientific conclusion;
>
> just guesswork from a doctor. It seems very unlikely to me.
>
> Of course it's always advisable to avoid getting a cut dirty. There are
> lots
> of diseases that like to make their way into the body via a dirty wound.
>
> Legionella isn't one of them.
>
>
> Ian
Hi Ian,
Its a very sad world we live in, health and safety in society is way
over the
top. The lawyers must love this nonsense, I have handled
compost for more years
than I care to remember and will continue to do
so!
I should qualify that be saying home made compost as in no Aminopyralid,
which I
might add is still out there!
--
uriel13
Posted by Gordon H on September 5, 2010, 4:36 am
>Its a very sad world we live in, health and safety in society is way
>over the top. The lawyers must love this nonsense, I have handled
>compost for more years than I care to remember and will continue to do
>so!
>I should qualify that be saying home made compost as in no Aminopyralid,
>which I might add is still out there!
Years ago, when I was a member of the local Garden Society, they
obtained some bulk compost from the local sewage works, and they called
it "Dentona". It was the colour of soot, but denser, had no
noticeable smell, and was perfect for soil improvement, and there was a
procession of wheel barrows in and out of the premises every Sunday
morning...
A few years ago I enquired about it and was told that they were no
longer allowed to sell it for H & S reasons.
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply
Posted by Martin on September 5, 2010, 5:28 am
On Sun, 5 Sep 2010 09:36:23 +0100, Gordon H
>>
>>Its a very sad world we live in, health and safety in society is way
>>over the top. The lawyers must love this nonsense, I have handled
>>compost for more years than I care to remember and will continue to do
>>so!
>>
>>I should qualify that be saying home made compost as in no Aminopyralid,
>>which I might add is still out there!
>>
>Years ago, when I was a member of the local Garden Society, they
>obtained some bulk compost from the local sewage works, and they called
>it "Dentona". It was the colour of soot, but denser, had no
>noticeable smell, and was perfect for soil improvement, and there was a
>procession of wheel barrows in and out of the premises every Sunday
>morning...
>A few years ago I enquired about it and was told that they were no
>longer allowed to sell it for H & S reasons.
AFAIR as a direct result of finding that it contained heavy metals in
significant quantities.
--
Martin
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>>
>> Of course it's always advisable to avoid getting a cut dirty. There are
>> lots
>> of diseases that like to make their way into the body via a dirty wound.
>> Legionella isn't one of them.
>>
> Interesting. I did wonder if it was an over-reaction by what is becoming
> an overly elfin safety conscious society. I am surprised so many gardeners
> wear gloves though to handle compost. It sounds like it may be a wise
> thing to do?
> Last year I ended up with a fungal infection on both knees - I think it
> was due to kneeling on the bare soil while planting seedlings and wearing
> shorts. It took three months to get rid of the infection with anti-fungal
> creams - it was damn persistent. I guess the abrasion of the soil on the
> bare skin was enough to introduce the spores under the skin, especially
> while putting weight on my knees.
> I've just been kneeling and planting more seedlings today, but kept stout
> jeans on despite the heat. My back just won't take stooping for long
> nowadays.