Posted by Richard Kerry on April 5, 2005, 10:07 am
Hi there,
I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my ignorance)
as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with about a
dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump has
given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after cleaning
the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a lot
of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.
I would like to change the setup but don't have a huge amount of money to do
this, so I'd really appreciate some advice...So my questions are as follows
(apologies I have a number of queries!)
1. From what I have read the pond is too shallow (is it?) and needs to be at
least 4 ft in depth for Koi? If this is the case then I presumably would
have to remove the fish to a temporary setup (holding tank? any ideas on how
this is done?) dig the pond out deeper and replace with a new liner? Could I
use my existing pond for this season as is and make the changes regarding
pond depth when finances allow?
2. Should I get the pond cleared of the silt? How would I do this - using a
pond vac? Can you hire a pond vac?
3. What would be a good/inexpensive pump & filter combination? I have looked
on the web and it's a bit of a minefield of information, some people seem to
advise on a using a Vortex chamber setup or is this only for professionals?
What filter/pump would work with my existing setup as well as allowing for
the increase in pond depth at a later date?
4. I found a setup that looked interesting after doing some calcs on my pond
size, this was using the Hozelock Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump -
is this a good setup? This also looks good as I don't need a gravity feed
filter so can site this setup away from the pond, but the filters (2 of
them) do look a little small compared to my existing big filter box?
5. Could I also use my existing filter box (3 stage) with the new Hozelock
Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump system in line for extra filtering?
6. Any recommendations on suppliers? I found Grovelands Online
(www.grovelands.com) and their prices look great. I am based in
Hampshire.......
Any help would be very much appreciated as I am very keen to ensure my pond
setup is correct and enjoy the new experience of being a pond owner.
kind regard,
Richard
Posted by Bob Hobden on April 5, 2005, 1:06 pm
"Richard Kerry" wrote
> I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my
> ignorance)
> as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with about
> a
> dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump has
> given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after cleaning
> the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a
> lot
> of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
> which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.
Firstly never say Koi carp, it marks you out as someone who isn't a Koi
keeper. It's short for Nishikigoi, which means Japanese Imperial Carp, you
are therefor simply saying carp carp, there are no koi that arn't carp. Your
pond is also full so don't be tempted to increase your stock. We have only 9
fish in 3,000 gals, they get big especially is given the space.
> I would like to change the setup but don't have a huge amount of money to
> do
> this, so I'd really appreciate some advice...So my questions are as
> follows
> (apologies I have a number of queries!)
> 1. From what I have read the pond is too shallow (is it?) and needs to be
> at
> least 4 ft in depth for Koi? If this is the case then I presumably would
> have to remove the fish to a temporary setup (holding tank? any ideas on
> how
> this is done?) dig the pond out deeper and replace with a new liner? Could
> I
> use my existing pond for this season as is and make the changes regarding
> pond depth when finances allow?
It is too shallow but I have kept Koi for over 20 years in a pond only 1
meter deep so it will depend on where you are. The colder the area the
deeper it needs to be, a deep pond also exercises the fish more, 5ft is
good.
I've seen 9ft deep Koi ponds but then they were well over 10,000 gals with
filters to match.
They should be OK for this season, they have been OK in there until now
anyway.
You would need a large net and a proper holding pond which I have seen
available (don't use an above ground swimming pool as the liner is
chemically treated). You will get very wet catching them, and they are very
strong animals. Best to cover the holding pond with a close fitting net as
they can jump out.
> 2. Should I get the pond cleared of the silt? How would I do this - using
> a
> pond vac? Can you hire a pond vac?
I use an old swimming pool pump and "hoover" but the small strainer basket
does clog up often if the pond is dirty. Never as dirty as your's by the
sound of it. :-)
> 3. What would be a good/inexpensive pump & filter combination? I have
> looked
> on the web and it's a bit of a minefield of information, some people seem
> to
> advise on a using a Vortex chamber setup or is this only for
> professionals?
> What filter/pump would work with my existing setup as well as allowing for
> the increase in pond depth at a later date?
I originally made my own filters out of water tanks but then these big
filters weren't available commercially then. A vortex chamber is good as it
removes the larger solids which can then be drained off to waste easily.
With a hoover, your pond won't be too dirty if you clean it a few times ever
year so I'm not convinced a vortex chamber is strictly necessary.
These filters work by allowing aerobic bacteria to colonise the filter
medium and it's these bacteria that break down the fish waste into less
harmfull chemicals. Clear water is not necessarily clean water. For this
reason, once started they shouldn't be turned off or the bacteria will die
causing more problems when eventually restarted.
I use, as do a lot of koi keepers, a central heating pump but these have to
be kept dry and below water level (outside the pond in a seperate rain-proof
chamber) as they won't suck water up but will push it up as high as you
like. They are cheap comparitively, much cheaper to run, very very reliable
and there is no electricity in the pond.
Take a look at this site, it has lots of usefull information, although
remember they are retaillers so they don't mention the cheaper CH pump
alternative I mention above. Always get a bigger filter than is strictly
necessary, koi are the pigs of the fish world and produce a lot of muck.
http://www.worldofwater.com/main.htm
> 4. I found a setup that looked interesting after doing some calcs on my
> pond
> size, this was using the Hozelock Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump -
> is this a good setup? This also looks good as I don't need a gravity feed
> filter so can site this setup away from the pond, but the filters (2 of
> them) do look a little small compared to my existing big filter box?
Hozelock haven't got a name for pumps so they are probably someone elses
renamed. Oase are makers of fine in-pond pumps and filters etc.
> 5. Could I also use my existing filter box (3 stage) with the new Hozelock
> Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump system in line for extra filtering?
Yes, excellent idea, I have 4 tanks in line starting with brushes then three
with foam. Horrid to clean out each spring though, full of filthy black
sludge which is very strong, fertilizer wise.
> 6. Any recommendations on suppliers? I found Grovelands Online
> (www.grovelands.com) and their prices look great. I am based in
> Hampshire.......
Good grief! Just looked at the price of your pump. That's the price of about
3 x Grundfoss 3 speed CH pumps !!!! So according to my experience about 30+
years of pumps working 24/7.
If you can't design in a CH pump do take a look at Oase pumps.
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
Posted by Richard Kerry on April 5, 2005, 4:26 pm
Hi Bob,
Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions I'm
afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem to have
been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05) I'd like to
dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the appropriate pump and
filters that will work today and also in the future.
Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've seen
some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a good idea
24/7.
Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work as
the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no difference?
Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
continue using it?
kind regards,
Richard
> "Richard Kerry" wrote
>>
>> I am new to the pond world (complete beginner so please excuse my
>> ignorance)
>> as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with
>> about a
>> dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump
>> has
>> given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after
>> cleaning
>> the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a
>> lot
>> of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
>> which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.
> Firstly never say Koi carp, it marks you out as someone who isn't a Koi
> keeper. It's short for Nishikigoi, which means Japanese Imperial Carp, you
> are therefor simply saying carp carp, there are no koi that arn't carp.
> Your pond is also full so don't be tempted to increase your stock. We have
> only 9 fish in 3,000 gals, they get big especially is given the space.
>> I would like to change the setup but don't have a huge amount of money to
>> do
>> this, so I'd really appreciate some advice...So my questions are as
>> follows
>> (apologies I have a number of queries!)
>>
>> 1. From what I have read the pond is too shallow (is it?) and needs to be
>> at
>> least 4 ft in depth for Koi? If this is the case then I presumably would
>> have to remove the fish to a temporary setup (holding tank? any ideas on
>> how
>> this is done?) dig the pond out deeper and replace with a new liner?
>> Could I
>> use my existing pond for this season as is and make the changes regarding
>> pond depth when finances allow?
> It is too shallow but I have kept Koi for over 20 years in a pond only 1
> meter deep so it will depend on where you are. The colder the area the
> deeper it needs to be, a deep pond also exercises the fish more, 5ft is
> good.
> I've seen 9ft deep Koi ponds but then they were well over 10,000 gals with
> filters to match.
> They should be OK for this season, they have been OK in there until now
> anyway.
> You would need a large net and a proper holding pond which I have seen
> available (don't use an above ground swimming pool as the liner is
> chemically treated). You will get very wet catching them, and they are
> very strong animals. Best to cover the holding pond with a close fitting
> net as they can jump out.
>>
>> 2. Should I get the pond cleared of the silt? How would I do this - using
>> a
>> pond vac? Can you hire a pond vac?
> I use an old swimming pool pump and "hoover" but the small strainer basket
> does clog up often if the pond is dirty. Never as dirty as your's by the
> sound of it. :-)
>>
>> 3. What would be a good/inexpensive pump & filter combination? I have
>> looked
>> on the web and it's a bit of a minefield of information, some people seem
>> to
>> advise on a using a Vortex chamber setup or is this only for
>> professionals?
>> What filter/pump would work with my existing setup as well as allowing
>> for
>> the increase in pond depth at a later date?
> I originally made my own filters out of water tanks but then these big
> filters weren't available commercially then. A vortex chamber is good as
> it removes the larger solids which can then be drained off to waste
> easily.
> With a hoover, your pond won't be too dirty if you clean it a few times
> ever year so I'm not convinced a vortex chamber is strictly necessary.
> These filters work by allowing aerobic bacteria to colonise the filter
> medium and it's these bacteria that break down the fish waste into less
> harmfull chemicals. Clear water is not necessarily clean water. For this
> reason, once started they shouldn't be turned off or the bacteria will die
> causing more problems when eventually restarted.
> I use, as do a lot of koi keepers, a central heating pump but these have
> to be kept dry and below water level (outside the pond in a seperate
> rain-proof chamber) as they won't suck water up but will push it up as
> high as you like. They are cheap comparitively, much cheaper to run, very
> very reliable and there is no electricity in the pond.
> Take a look at this site, it has lots of usefull information, although
> remember they are retaillers so they don't mention the cheaper CH pump
> alternative I mention above. Always get a bigger filter than is strictly
> necessary, koi are the pigs of the fish world and produce a lot of muck.
> http://www.worldofwater.com/main.htm
>>
>> 4. I found a setup that looked interesting after doing some calcs on my
>> pond
>> size, this was using the Hozelock Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000
>> pump -
>> is this a good setup? This also looks good as I don't need a gravity feed
>> filter so can site this setup away from the pond, but the filters (2 of
>> them) do look a little small compared to my existing big filter box?
> Hozelock haven't got a name for pumps so they are probably someone elses
> renamed. Oase are makers of fine in-pond pumps and filters etc.
>> 5. Could I also use my existing filter box (3 stage) with the new
>> Hozelock
>> Ecoclear 18000 with a Titan 12000 pump system in line for extra
>> filtering?
> Yes, excellent idea, I have 4 tanks in line starting with brushes then
> three with foam. Horrid to clean out each spring though, full of filthy
> black sludge which is very strong, fertilizer wise.
>>
>> 6. Any recommendations on suppliers? I found Grovelands Online
>> (www.grovelands.com) and their prices look great. I am based in
>> Hampshire.......
> Good grief! Just looked at the price of your pump. That's the price of
> about 3 x Grundfoss 3 speed CH pumps !!!! So according to my experience
> about 30+ years of pumps working 24/7.
> If you can't design in a CH pump do take a look at Oase pumps.
> --
> Regards
> Bob
> In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
>
Posted by Phil L on April 5, 2005, 5:03 pm
Richard Kerry wrote:
:: Hi Bob,
::
:: Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more
:: questions I'm afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old
:: so the "Koi" seem to have been ok in their existing environment,
:: longer term (end of 05) I'd like to dig the pond out so the advice
:: I need is to get the appropriate pump and filters that will work
:: today and also in the future.
::
:: Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and
:: an ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as
:: I've seen some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy
:: currents so NOT a good idea 24/7.
Heating?
Koi don't need warm water, they live in cold water.
Posted by Bob Hobden on April 5, 2005, 6:30 pm
"Richard Kerry" wrote .
> Many thanks for all the useful advice, now I have even more questions I'm
> afraid! The pond we inherited is about 7 years old so the "Koi" seem to
> have been ok in their existing environment, longer term (end of 05) I'd
> like to dig the pond out so the advice I need is to get the appropriate
> pump and filters that will work today and also in the future.
> Where do I get a CH pump from? Do I need a CH pump for heating and an
> ordinary pump for the filters? Is a CH pump energy effecient as I've seen
> some inexpensive (aka cheap) pumps running crazy currents so NOT a good
> idea 24/7.
You get a Central Heating (Grundfos) pump from any good plumbers merchant
that sells radiators etc. and although some koi keepers do heat their ponds
a bit in the winter it isn't necessary. I and others use a CH pump for the
filters.
Yes a central heating pump is very efficient, probably the most efficient
type of pump.
This is the sort of thing http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/348-195
> Also, if I got for the system I indicated on my orgininal post I wonder
> whether using an standard box filter with the EcoClear 18000 would work as
> the EcoClear is a pressurised system or would that make no difference?
Put it after the pressurised filter and it will "polish" the water making it
crystal clear. If you go down the CH pump route you need to discuss with the
plumbers merchant what pump you need to give you the pressure (or head) to
run your "pressurised" filter, but what's the advantage of the pressure
filter over the sort you already have? The water has to have time in the
filter for the bacteria to work, pumping it through at speed will not work.
> Can I also get new materials for my existing filter should I wish to
> continue using it?
Yes you can, either from an aquatic shop like the one whose URL I already
mentioned or get some Filter Foam from a foam shop, but wash it thoroughly
before use.
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
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> ignorance)
> as I recently moved and inherited a 11ft * 11ft * 2ft pond full with about
> a
> dozen or so Koi carp, largest fish about 16 inches in length. The pump has
> given up and the filter seemed permanently clogged up, even after cleaning
> the internal (pads) every week. I have also noticed that the pond has a
> lot
> of "silt" in it even though the water is clean, it currently has a UV box
> which now doesn't work as the pump is not working.