Posted by PeterD on January 23, 2010, 8:34 am
wrote:
>>
>> Hurricane Yikes made a believer out of us regarding sufficient fuel on
>> hand (every gas station for 60 miles was without power to pump fuel).
>I have always wondered why states (especially those prone to hurricanes,
>storms, snow storms) do not require that ALL gas stations have a simple
>backup generator so they can pump the gas that is in their tanks. And, of
>course, once the generator is started they can use their own gas pumps to
>keep filling their generator gas tank to keep it running.
>I always think how stupid it is in a natural disaster emergency that people
>who need to evacuate can't get gas because the gas at the gas stations is
>unavailable simply because the gas station doesn't have the power to pump
>its own gas.
Many states/locals do require certain key stations to have backup
power. Not all stations, but some.
Posted by Stormin Mormon on January 23, 2010, 9:34 am
Natural gas is highly dependable in NY. A natural gas
generator makes sense. Or as you say, you can use your own
gasoline to power the generator.
The answer, in part. Is that the government and the
anti-gouging laws. I've heard that gas stations make nearly
no mark up on fuel. Which is why most of them sell coffee,
candy, beer, etc. Supposing a gas station installs a
generator, and has it wired in. How do they recover the cost
of the generator? Well, the only way I know is to sell
gasoline during a power cut. But, is that actually cost
effective? I doubt it. Even if they have cars lined up, the
once a year or so doesn't provide enough mark up to cover
the generator. Unless they increase the price of gas during
the power cut. But they "aren't allowed" to do that. So, the
stations say never mind, there is no financial reason to do
so.
Requiring them by force of law, to spend money on
generators. Well, that sounds like more big government
telling people to do what's not financially practical. If
there was good financial reason to install generators, they
would have done so already.
I'd rather repeal the price gouging laws, and restore some
of the freedom to the "free market". If they want to install
a generator and charge ten bucks a galon during power cuts,
that's fine with me. Don't want to pay ten bucks a galon?
Fine. Go to some other gas station that's cheaper.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
I have always wondered why states (especially those prone to
hurricanes,
storms, snow storms) do not require that ALL gas stations
have a simple
backup generator so they can pump the gas that is in their
tanks. And, of
course, once the generator is started they can use their own
gas pumps to
keep filling their generator gas tank to keep it running.
I always think how stupid it is in a natural disaster
emergency that people
who need to evacuate can't get gas because the gas at the
gas stations is
unavailable simply because the gas station doesn't have the
power to pump
its own gas.
Posted by HeyBub on January 23, 2010, 2:15 pm
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Natural gas is highly dependable in NY. A natural gas
> generator makes sense. Or as you say, you can use your own
> gasoline to power the generator.
> The answer, in part. Is that the government and the
> anti-gouging laws. I've heard that gas stations make nearly
> no mark up on fuel. Which is why most of them sell coffee,
> candy, beer, etc. Supposing a gas station installs a
> generator, and has it wired in. How do they recover the cost
> of the generator? Well, the only way I know is to sell
> gasoline during a power cut. But, is that actually cost
> effective? I doubt it. Even if they have cars lined up, the
> once a year or so doesn't provide enough mark up to cover
> the generator. Unless they increase the price of gas during
> the power cut. But they "aren't allowed" to do that. So, the
> stations say never mind, there is no financial reason to do
> so.
> Requiring them by force of law, to spend money on
> generators. Well, that sounds like more big government
> telling people to do what's not financially practical. If
> there was good financial reason to install generators, they
> would have done so already.
> I'd rather repeal the price gouging laws, and restore some
> of the freedom to the "free market". If they want to install
> a generator and charge ten bucks a galon during power cuts,
> that's fine with me. Don't want to pay ten bucks a galon?
> Fine. Go to some other gas station that's cheaper.
Yep. Even during the oil embargo under Carter, there was no shortage of
gasoline - there was only a shortage of CHEAP gasoline.
Posted by Stormin Mormon on January 23, 2010, 9:35 am
If the gas stations could set their own price, I'm sure some
would install generators.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
I always think how stupid it is in a natural disaster
emergency that people
who need to evacuate can't get gas because the gas at the
gas stations is
unavailable simply because the gas station doesn't have the
power to pump
its own gas.
Posted by PeterD on January 23, 2010, 8:30 am
wrote:
>...
>In terms of efficiency and fuel use, which generator type is best.....
>gas, diesel, or propane ?
Diesel beats both gas and propane/lpg/nat-gas hands down. Diesel also
stores more easily, and most diesel generators run just fine on home
heating fuel. Down side? Diesels are a bit noiser perhaps. Upsides?
Good storage on the fuel (doesn't degrade in storage, but may require
an algicide).
>Has anyone here used a tri-fuel generator, such as the one made by Northern
>Industrial Tools ?
>How can one safely and properly store 150 gallons of gas ?
Safely? Hard, you need a good/proper storage tank. Consider checking
Northern Tools for tanks.
>I figure this is
>the maximum
>amount that i would need in any severe storm. I am aware of the use of
>Stabil, and I would
>also "rotate" the gas at least once a year.
How are you going to rotage 150 gallons of gas? If it is stale, you
sure you want to put it in your car?
>Has anyone here used a propane generator ? If so, how well did you like it
>? What
>model have you used ? If you have not used one, do you know of one on the
>market
>right now, in the 8 KW range ? (I find that all the propane ones I find
>are much larger
>generators, up to 12-15 kw or higher).
>In terms of fuel usage, is a gallon of propane about the same as a gallon of
>gas ?
No, a gallon of propane has less energy than a gallon of gas. And a
gallon of gas has less energy than a gallon of diesel.
>I need 6 120 volt circuits, and two 240 circuits. The 240 circuits
>are needed for
>hot water, and water pump. Will this mean that I will need 3 distinct
>power cables run
>from my generator to the transfer switch in the house ? Are these
>pre-manufactured
>cables in given lengths, or will my electrician custom make cables ??
No, but your question says you need to talk to an electrican about
hookups before you kill yourself or someone else. <g>
>If I use a propane tank, it may well be 50 feet lower in elevation than my
>generator, and
>up to 100 feet away. Will the propane travel an uphill run like this ?
Probably, but I doubt you will get away with that type of a setup. I
don't think any gas company will fill a tank (150 gallons) feeding a
150 ft line to a generator.
>What is your favorite generator in the 7-8 KW range ?
The very best one you can afford. NO cheap Chinese crap!!!
>> Hurricane Yikes made a believer out of us regarding sufficient fuel on
>> hand (every gas station for 60 miles was without power to pump fuel).
>I have always wondered why states (especially those prone to hurricanes,
>storms, snow storms) do not require that ALL gas stations have a simple
>backup generator so they can pump the gas that is in their tanks. And, of
>course, once the generator is started they can use their own gas pumps to
>keep filling their generator gas tank to keep it running.
>I always think how stupid it is in a natural disaster emergency that people
>who need to evacuate can't get gas because the gas at the gas stations is
>unavailable simply because the gas station doesn't have the power to pump
>its own gas.