> A B said:
> >> A B said:
> >>> We relaid our lawn in April.
> >> What kind of turfgrass?
> > Didn't say. Very cheap but growing well at the time. I did wonder whether
> > it would last - the soil it was growing on was appalling, half clay half
> > pebbles.
> >>> It's hopelessly overshadowed by tall conifers
> >>> (we're going to get them cut back this autumn
> >> What kind of conifers? You do know that they don't grow like deciduous
> >> trees,
> >> right? You can't prune them the same way. Other than cutting out the
> >> deadwood,
> >> they don't really need pruning. If you "top" them, they'll look like a
> >> shrub
> >> forever. Where you remove limbs, they won't grow back.
> > I know all that, yeah. We're getting it done professionally. (They seemed
> > to think it was possible.)
> "Professionally" can simply mean "they get paid for it". Are they certified
> arborists? And, of course they think it's possible. They want your money. ;)
> >>> but didn't manage it last
> >>> autumn), but at least it had as good a soil as possible - large amount
> >>> of
> >>> composted manure dug in, and a full dose of organic fertilizer pellets
> >>> (balanced).
> >> Please explain what a "full dose" is, as well as the specific "organic
> >> fertilizer pellets".
> > Lakeland General-Purpose Organic Plant Food, 8-8-8. (Didn't have the box
> > handy last time I posted.) I used 75g/sqm which is the maximum dose as
> > specified on the box. The point is that it was supposed to last it longer
> > than that.
> Lakeland also makes a lawn food (which would have more appropriate NPK ratio for
> sod). Is there a reason you went with a balanced fertilizer? And, at those
> rates, I don't suspect it to be the culpret in the spots you have.
> Apparently, the product is in time-release pellets, which are supposed to last 2
> months.
> >>> I'd have said that that ought to last it for months before it
> >>> needed feeding again. It was somebody else's idea to deg it with
> >>> chemical
> >>> lawn fertilizer last week (some stuff called Aftercut, I forget the
> >>> details
> >>> but pretty strong).
> >> It's not strong at all. It's 3-1-3 + 2% iron
> >> It's basically a waste of money. You get an immediate greenup from the
> >> iron, but
> >> the 3-1-3 is crap.
> >>> Well, it wasn't done evenly enough, and killed off
> >>> several patches of the lawn.
> >> I doubt that's what killed off the several patches of lawn. You can put
> >> that
> >> crap out by hand. You'd have to have one helluva pile sit in one spot for
> >> quite
> >> a while for it to do any damage.
> > Well, the grass died off the day after the fertilizer went on, in exactly
> > the places where there was most fertilizer. Might have been a coincidence,
> > but it's a pretty good one. Maybe it was the iron. Didn't use anything
> > else at all.
> 2% iron wouldn't burn the grass, either. OTOH, if the manure wasn't composted
> properly/completely, it sure would.
> >>> How often do you really need to feed lawns, anyway?
> >> Totally depends on what kind of grass, as well as your location.
> >>> Before it was relaid we
> >>> hardly ever used to get round to feeding ours, and the sunnier part
> >>> thrived
> >>> for several years until it got very compacted.
> >> LOL So, instead of dealing with the compaction by aerifying and
> >> top-dressing,
> >> you replaced the lawn? When your car gets dirty, do you just go buy a new
> >> one?
> > OK, OK, we should have spiked it more often. (Not that it ever seemed to
> > make much difference).
> "Spiking" is *NOT* aerifying. Unless those "spikes" were hollow, and pulled up a
> plug of sod/soil each time they plunged in. =)
> > But we didn't, and one side of it was slowly dying
> > off anyway from too much shade. This year it had got to the point where
> > there was hardly anything left, so it seemed easier to cut our losses and
> > start again.
> Was the side that was "slowly dying off" close to the (as yet, not identified)
> conifers?
> >>> Before the fertilizer incident, the new lawn was growing fine. But it
> >>> did
> >>> keep getting these squishy, flattened brown patches about six inches
> >>> across,
> >>> for all the world as if somebody had ground it in with their foot. Never
> >>> come across those before. Can anyone explain?
> >> Not without more information, and perhaps some photos posted online and
> >> linked
> >> here.
> > Can't help you there, I'm afraid. The above describes them exactly, and I
> > can't take any pictures now because they were covered up by the other thing.
> > They appeared any time, any weather, as far as I could tell.
> > As regards location: Lancashire. Wet, basically.
> Have you had your soil tested? Before putting anything else down (organic or
> otherwize), that would be the first thing you should do.
> --
> Eggs
Another factor. Don;t know how things work over there, but here in
the northeast USA, all the sod I've been involved with has been grown
for sunny locations or at least locations that get a reasonable amount
of sun each day. It's typically blue grass/tall fescue. That will
not do well in shade. For shade, I've always used a true shade
blend that has varieties like creeping fescue and gone with seed.
Agree with the spiking is not aerifying too. A real core aerator
takes out plugs that are about 1/2" in diameter. That really opens
the soil up, as opposed to spikes that just compress it more in the
location next to the spike.
trader4@optonline.net wrote:
...
> Another factor. Don;t know how things work over there, but
> here in
> the northeast USA, all the sod I've been involved with has been
> grown
> for sunny locations or at least locations that get a reasonable
> amount
> of sun each day. It's typically blue grass/tall fescue. That
> will
> not do well in shade. For shade, I've always used a true
> shade
> blend that has varieties like creeping fescue and gone with
> seed.
that and unless you're getting decent sod it's thin
and most people do not really prepare the underlayer
enough, so after a short period of time it is depleted
and starts getting patchy and weedy.
if you're going to sod, make sure to put the money
into what the sod is going on top of too to a suitable
depth...
> Agree with the spiking is not aerifying too. A real core
> aerator
> takes out plugs that are about 1/2" in diameter. That really
> opens
> the soil up, as opposed to spikes that just compress it more in
> the
> location next to the spike.
on top of that if there is nothing but clay
and pebbles and they are not putting any organic matter down
in those holes afterwards it's not accomplishing much other
than perhaps drying the hard/compacted soil out further.
after spiking they'd need to get some slow rotting organics
raked in. or at least that is what i would make sure to do
if i cared about growing grass.
but then again, i wouldn't... i find grass to be the worst
kind of weed. :)
songbird
> >> A B said:
> >>> We relaid our lawn in April.
> >> What kind of turfgrass?
> > Didn't say. Very cheap but growing well at the time. I did wonder whether
> > it would last - the soil it was growing on was appalling, half clay half
> > pebbles.
> >>> It's hopelessly overshadowed by tall conifers
> >>> (we're going to get them cut back this autumn
> >> What kind of conifers? You do know that they don't grow like deciduous
> >> trees,
> >> right? You can't prune them the same way. Other than cutting out the
> >> deadwood,
> >> they don't really need pruning. If you "top" them, they'll look like a
> >> shrub
> >> forever. Where you remove limbs, they won't grow back.
> > I know all that, yeah. We're getting it done professionally. (They seemed
> > to think it was possible.)
> "Professionally" can simply mean "they get paid for it". Are they certified
> arborists? And, of course they think it's possible. They want your money. ;)
> >>> but didn't manage it last
> >>> autumn), but at least it had as good a soil as possible - large amount
> >>> of
> >>> composted manure dug in, and a full dose of organic fertilizer pellets
> >>> (balanced).
> >> Please explain what a "full dose" is, as well as the specific "organic
> >> fertilizer pellets".
> > Lakeland General-Purpose Organic Plant Food, 8-8-8. (Didn't have the box
> > handy last time I posted.) I used 75g/sqm which is the maximum dose as
> > specified on the box. The point is that it was supposed to last it longer
> > than that.
> Lakeland also makes a lawn food (which would have more appropriate NPK ratio for
> sod). Is there a reason you went with a balanced fertilizer? And, at those
> rates, I don't suspect it to be the culpret in the spots you have.
> Apparently, the product is in time-release pellets, which are supposed to last 2
> months.
> >>> I'd have said that that ought to last it for months before it
> >>> needed feeding again. It was somebody else's idea to deg it with
> >>> chemical
> >>> lawn fertilizer last week (some stuff called Aftercut, I forget the
> >>> details
> >>> but pretty strong).
> >> It's not strong at all. It's 3-1-3 + 2% iron
> >> It's basically a waste of money. You get an immediate greenup from the
> >> iron, but
> >> the 3-1-3 is crap.
> >>> Well, it wasn't done evenly enough, and killed off
> >>> several patches of the lawn.
> >> I doubt that's what killed off the several patches of lawn. You can put
> >> that
> >> crap out by hand. You'd have to have one helluva pile sit in one spot for
> >> quite
> >> a while for it to do any damage.
> > Well, the grass died off the day after the fertilizer went on, in exactly
> > the places where there was most fertilizer. Might have been a coincidence,
> > but it's a pretty good one. Maybe it was the iron. Didn't use anything
> > else at all.
> 2% iron wouldn't burn the grass, either. OTOH, if the manure wasn't composted
> properly/completely, it sure would.
> >>> How often do you really need to feed lawns, anyway?
> >> Totally depends on what kind of grass, as well as your location.
> >>> Before it was relaid we
> >>> hardly ever used to get round to feeding ours, and the sunnier part
> >>> thrived
> >>> for several years until it got very compacted.
> >> LOL So, instead of dealing with the compaction by aerifying and
> >> top-dressing,
> >> you replaced the lawn? When your car gets dirty, do you just go buy a new
> >> one?
> > OK, OK, we should have spiked it more often. (Not that it ever seemed to
> > make much difference).
> "Spiking" is *NOT* aerifying. Unless those "spikes" were hollow, and pulled up a
> plug of sod/soil each time they plunged in. =)
> > But we didn't, and one side of it was slowly dying
> > off anyway from too much shade. This year it had got to the point where
> > there was hardly anything left, so it seemed easier to cut our losses and
> > start again.
> Was the side that was "slowly dying off" close to the (as yet, not identified)
> conifers?
> >>> Before the fertilizer incident, the new lawn was growing fine. But it
> >>> did
> >>> keep getting these squishy, flattened brown patches about six inches
> >>> across,
> >>> for all the world as if somebody had ground it in with their foot. Never
> >>> come across those before. Can anyone explain?
> >> Not without more information, and perhaps some photos posted online and
> >> linked
> >> here.
> > Can't help you there, I'm afraid. The above describes them exactly, and I
> > can't take any pictures now because they were covered up by the other thing.
> > They appeared any time, any weather, as far as I could tell.
> > As regards location: Lancashire. Wet, basically.
> Have you had your soil tested? Before putting anything else down (organic or
> otherwize), that would be the first thing you should do.
> --
> Eggs