If there is one thing I have a lot of, it's decomposing leaf litter
(aside from shade and pine straw).
I've never thought of using this as a mulch (I'm more concerned with
moisture retention than weed blocking). Now, I wonder if this may be a
good thing for some plants and perhaps because of the micro-organisms in
that, not so good for others.
There are a *lot* of earthworms in there. I was thinking maybe the
tomatoes and peppers, and not the cucurbits. Current strategy has been
cedar mix mulch. My impression is that newspaper much is more for weeds
than water retention, am I wrong?
Jeff
Posted by Bill who putters on May 11, 2010, 2:09 pm
> If there is one thing I have a lot of, it's decomposing leaf litter > (aside from shade and pine straw). > > I've never thought of using this as a mulch (I'm more concerned with > moisture retention than weed blocking). Now, I wonder if this may be a > good thing for some plants and perhaps because of the micro-organisms in > that, not so good for others. > > There are a *lot* of earthworms in there. I was thinking maybe the > tomatoes and peppers, and not the cucurbits. Current strategy has been > cedar mix mulch. My impression is that newspaper much is more for weeds > than water retention, am I wrong? > > Jeff
Jeff if you want you can E mail me at b2wagner@snip.net.
Charlie, Billy and I kibitz exchanging a Jpg or tune at times. I cc my
kids sometimes too. I will send a message out to those guys and they
may decide to interact.
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
http://www.thesunmagazine.org/ many stars
Posted by Billy on May 11, 2010, 2:17 pm
> If there is one thing I have a lot of, it's decomposing leaf litter > (aside from shade and pine straw). > > I've never thought of using this as a mulch (I'm more concerned with > moisture retention than weed blocking). Now, I wonder if this may be a > good thing for some plants and perhaps because of the micro-organisms in > that, not so good for others. > > There are a *lot* of earthworms in there. I was thinking maybe the > tomatoes and peppers, and not the cucurbits. Current strategy has been > cedar mix mulch. My impression is that newspaper much is more for weeds > than water retention, am I wrong? > > Jeff
They are both potential carbon sources, and blockers of sunlight and
wind. The problem is that wood often contains potentially fungitoxic
compounds. The most toxic of these are the thujaplicins which are
particularly abundant in cedarwood, making this a naturally
decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden furnishings, etc. Because
cedar is decay resistant, its carbon isn't readily available to
decomposers, and ultimately the plants.
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research/groups/jdeacon/FungalBiology/woodrot
s.htm
Any mulch, be it cedar, straw, newspapers, or plastic will block
sunlight, there by suppressing weeds, and help retain water by blocking
the sunlight that will warm the water to vapor temp., and blocking the
wind, which would increases evaporation.
An important thing to remember is that the soil microbes need carbon and
nitrogen. Carbon should be paired up with a nitrogen source for a C/N
ratio of 25 (25/1) for assimilation by microbes. Remember that it is the
life and death cycles of the microbes that organic gardeners count on to
feed their plants and give tilth to the soil (increases water holding
capacity). The nutrients will be bound by humus and clay in the soil,
and released as the plants need them.
Possible mulch or composting materials
Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25
I use the last three for my lasagna gardening (a.k.a. sheet mulching)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
> >> If there is one thing I have a lot of, it's decomposing leaf litter >> (aside from shade and pine straw). >> >> I've never thought of using this as a mulch (I'm more concerned with >> moisture retention than weed blocking). Now, I wonder if this may be a >> good thing for some plants and perhaps because of the micro-organisms in >> that, not so good for others. >> >> There are a *lot* of earthworms in there. I was thinking maybe the >> tomatoes and peppers, and not the cucurbits. Current strategy has been >> cedar mix mulch. My impression is that newspaper much is more for weeds >> than water retention, am I wrong? >> >> Jeff > > They are both potential carbon sources, and blockers of sunlight and > wind. The problem is that wood often contains potentially fungitoxic > compounds. The most toxic of these are the thujaplicins which are > particularly abundant in cedarwood, making this a naturally > decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden furnishings, etc. Because > cedar is decay resistant, its carbon isn't readily available to > decomposers, and ultimately the plants. > http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research/groups/jdeacon/FungalBiology/woodrot > s.htm > > Any mulch, be it cedar, straw, newspapers, or plastic will block > sunlight, there by suppressing weeds, and help retain water by blocking > the sunlight that will warm the water to vapor temp., and blocking the > wind, which would increases evaporation. > > An important thing to remember is that the soil microbes need carbon and > nitrogen. Carbon should be paired up with a nitrogen source for a C/N > ratio of 25 (25/1) for assimilation by microbes. Remember that it is the > life and death cycles of the microbes that organic gardeners count on to > feed their plants and give tilth to the soil (increases water holding > capacity). The nutrients will be bound by humus and clay in the soil, > and released as the plants need them.
OK. It looks to me that leaf litter can potentially have a very high C/N
ratio.
So, what I'm thinking, and perhaps lasagna gardening does this, is to
buffer or average the C/N ratio. It looks to me that all those pine
needles are out, although it was all the white fungi that worried me and
not the C/N.
Thanks, I have a good start on this now. I see the benefit of alfalfa
also. I have been mixing in bagged cow manure with decomposed leaf
litter, that looks like a balance there.
Jeff
> > Possible mulch or composting materials > > Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25 > > Grass clippings ................................ 25 > > Leguminous plants (peas, > beans,soybeans) ............................. 15 > > Manure with bedding ........................... 23 > > Manure ....................................... 15 > > Oak leaves .................................... 50 > > Pine needles .............................. 60-100 > > Sawdust.................................... 150-500 > > Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100 > > Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25 > ---- > > Alfalfa ....................................... 12 > > Aged Chicken Manure ........................ 7 > > Newspaper..................................... 175 > > I use the last three for my lasagna gardening (a.k.a. sheet mulching)
Posted by Billy on May 11, 2010, 3:55 pm
As you can see, alder or ash leaves are ideal, pine needles, not so much.
> Billy wrote: > > > >> If there is one thing I have a lot of, it's decomposing leaf litter > >> (aside from shade and pine straw). > >> > >> I've never thought of using this as a mulch (I'm more concerned with > >> moisture retention than weed blocking). Now, I wonder if this may be a > >> good thing for some plants and perhaps because of the micro-organisms in > >> that, not so good for others. > >> > >> There are a *lot* of earthworms in there. I was thinking maybe the > >> tomatoes and peppers, and not the cucurbits. Current strategy has been > >> cedar mix mulch. My impression is that newspaper much is more for weeds > >> than water retention, am I wrong? > >> > >> Jeff > > > > They are both potential carbon sources, and blockers of sunlight and > > wind. The problem is that wood often contains potentially fungitoxic > > compounds. The most toxic of these are the thujaplicins which are > > particularly abundant in cedarwood, making this a naturally > > decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden furnishings, etc. Because > > cedar is decay resistant, its carbon isn't readily available to > > decomposers, and ultimately the plants. > > http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research/groups/jdeacon/FungalBiology/woodrot > > s.htm > > > > Any mulch, be it cedar, straw, newspapers, or plastic will block > > sunlight, there by suppressing weeds, and help retain water by blocking > > the sunlight that will warm the water to vapor temp., and blocking the > > wind, which would increases evaporation. > > > > An important thing to remember is that the soil microbes need carbon and > > nitrogen. Carbon should be paired up with a nitrogen source for a C/N > > ratio of 25 (25/1) for assimilation by microbes. Remember that it is the > > life and death cycles of the microbes that organic gardeners count on to > > feed their plants and give tilth to the soil (increases water holding > > capacity). The nutrients will be bound by humus and clay in the soil, > > and released as the plants need them. > > > OK. It looks to me that leaf litter can potentially have a very high C/N > ratio. > > something here: > http://www.limnetica.com/Limnetica/Limne13-2/Limnetica-vol13%282%29-pag65-70.p > df
I don't know what's going on here. I do know that the head waters are in
the Pyrenees, and are freakin' cold, and the Garonne River is only
slightly less green than the Garonne Vally (low oxygen is my guess).
These could account for the similarity in the decomposition rates.
> > It looks like hardwoods have a higher ratio. > > So, what I'm thinking, and perhaps lasagna gardening does this, is to > buffer or average the C/N ratio. It looks to me that all those pine > needles are out, although it was all the white fungi that worried me and > not the C/N. > > Thanks, I have a good start on this now. I see the benefit of alfalfa > also. I have been mixing in bagged cow manure with decomposed leaf > litter, that looks like a balance there. > > Jeff > > > > Possible mulch or composting materials > > > > Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25 > > > > Grass clippings ................................ 25 > > > > Leguminous plants (peas, > > beans,soybeans) ............................. 15 > > > > Manure with bedding ........................... 23 > > > > Manure ....................................... 15 > > > > Oak leaves .................................... 50 > > > > Pine needles .............................. 60-100 > > > > Sawdust.................................... 150-500 > > > > Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100 > > > > Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25 > > ---- > > > > Alfalfa ....................................... 12 > > > > Aged Chicken Manure ........................ 7 > > > > Newspaper..................................... 175 > > > > I use the last three for my lasagna gardening (a.k.a. sheet mulching)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
> (aside from shade and pine straw).
>
> I've never thought of using this as a mulch (I'm more concerned with
> moisture retention than weed blocking). Now, I wonder if this may be a
> good thing for some plants and perhaps because of the micro-organisms in
> that, not so good for others.
>
> There are a *lot* of earthworms in there. I was thinking maybe the
> tomatoes and peppers, and not the cucurbits. Current strategy has been
> cedar mix mulch. My impression is that newspaper much is more for weeds
> than water retention, am I wrong?
>
> Jeff