Posted by sherwindu on July 20, 2007, 1:49 am
thistletoes wrote:
> > thistletoes wrote:
> >
> > > I don't have enough time left in my life to mess around with foot tall
trees.
> >
> > Then you shouldn't even consider mail order trees. If you're a
> > middle aged person you need to go to a local nursery and purchase
> > substantially sized trees; balled and burlaped and a minimum of 3"
> > caliper... and even then it's unlikely you'll live long enough to sit
> > in the shade of any type of sapling tree, even those that are fast
> > growing will need nearly 20 years before they look much like a shade
> > tree... the first 3-4 years they won't exhibit any growth. The truth
> > is that when you plant a tree it's for future generations, not for
> > you... your enjoyment can only be in knowing that future generations
> > will enjoy the fruits of you labor. Maybe you would do better
> > planting a perennial garden.
> >
> > I planted many mail order trees and quite a few larger trees from a
> > local nursery (in fact they were much too large for me to plant, the
> > nursery sent a crew with heavy equipment to plant them). I realize
> > that my main enjoyment is in that they lived and will one day be a
> > tree, but long after I'm gone. Even the fastest grower, a sycamore,
> > will need many more years before it begins to look representive of
> > it's mature state. The sycamore was a bareroot from Nature Hills, was
> > a three foot tall twig in a carboard box when it arrived, now it's
> > nine feet tall, but has many years to go. I ordered a second one the
> > next year, it's trying to catch up.
> >
> > Second summer:http://i18.tinypic.com/54knpli.jpg
> >
> > Third summer (last year):http://i19.tinypic.com/4xx0aad.jpg
> >
> > Fourth summer (this year):http://i12.tinypic.com/4p13cpx.jpg
> Yes, I am a middle-aged person, normally sensible & cautious.
> However, I am currently living in a remote enough area that it is
> inconvenient to make my way to a nursery. It is likely I will live
> here till I die.
> I find myself in a somewhat frustrating position. We do have a tiny
> nursery in the nearest village but several trees purchased there have
> been infected or otherwise defective and have died. It isn't my lack
> of care - they have an increasingly bad reputation. Worse, their
> guarantee is worth nothing. Only the Autumn Flame Maples have done
> well from that source, but they cost a blessed fortune and were
> brought up and planted by a landscaping company. They are now 12 feet
> tall even after 8-9 years, which I think is a bit slow since they were
> 6' when planted, not including the pot.
> The next best nursery is decent but is 60 miles away. The issue is
> that if I purchase a tree of any size, meaning over 5 feet tall,
> transport is difficult and costly. We have a pickup truck with normal
> size bed, but we would have to lay the trees down to transport,
> otherwise the wind generated by going down a highway would batter them
> senseless. Even then, they would sustain some damage if the tree is
> of decent size. On top of that, gas here is $3 a gallon and pickup
> trucks are not known for economy. I guess if we purchased a large
> enough number of trees, the trip would be worth while, if we could
> protect the trees. That's why I was considering mail order and
> thought someone might suggest a reputable one.
> Trees I've grown from seedlings have done well and after 5 years, some
> of the pin oaks (from acorns, mind you) are 8 feet tall. That thrills
> me that they even grew, as you commented about yours. However, as you
> point out, I am unlikely to live long enough to see them in their full
> glory. Still, a 12 foot tree is better than a perennial garden.
> Perennials are wonderful, I just need something different for this
> particular situation. The irony is that there are Ponderosa pines,
> Noble Fir, and hundreds of other conifers in the back half and along
> one side of my land, some 60' tall or more. Yet on the road side on
> my place, only a scanty few. I have desire for beauty, privacy and
> blockage of the dust from the gravel road that borders me on 2
> sides.
> As for the perennials, I have planted some native shrubs around the
> perimeter of the back deck and down the driveway. Those are doing
> reasonably well. They just aren't quite the same as a nice, tall tree
> out front. :-)
> I appreciate your advice, however. I can strive to live another 40
> years and then perhaps I will have the trees I want. I may be too
> blind to see them, but I'll know they are there, I hope.
> Deb :-)
Planting or transplanting any tree over five feet tall is pretty risky. You
have
to
be sure you get most of the roots out with the tree. I would suggest you
think
about mail order again, as they do sell dry root trees up to 5 feet tall.
You may
also want to consider fast growing varieties, like a Japanese Yew. In your
case,
there are no easy answers.
Sherwin
Posted by Sheldon on July 20, 2007, 11:33 am
thistletoes wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > thistletoes wrote:
> > > I don't have enough time left in my life to mess around with foot tall
trees.
> > Then you shouldn't even consider mail order trees. If you're a
> > middle aged person you need to go to a local nursery and purchase
> > substantially sized trees; balled and burlaped and a minimum of 3"
> > caliper... and even then it's unlikely you'll live long enough to sit
> > in the shade of any type of sapling tree, even those that are fast
> > growing will need nearly 20 years before they look much like a shade
> > tree... the first 3-4 years they won't exhibit any growth. The truth
> > is that when you plant a tree it's for future generations, not for
> > you... your enjoyment can only be in knowing that future generations
> > will enjoy the fruits of you labor. Maybe you would do better
> > planting a perennial garden.
> > I planted many mail order trees and quite a few larger trees from a
> > local nursery (in fact they were much too large for me to plant, the
> > nursery sent a crew with heavy equipment to plant them). I realize
> > that my main enjoyment is in that they lived and will one day be a
> > tree, but long after I'm gone. Even the fastest grower, a sycamore,
> > will need many more years before it begins to look representive of
> > it's mature state. The sycamore was a bareroot from Nature Hills, was
> > a three foot tall twig in a carboard box when it arrived, now it's
> > nine feet tall, but has many years to go. I ordered a second one the
> > next year, it's trying to catch up.
> > Second summer:http://i18.tinypic.com/54knpli.jpg
> > Third summer (last year):http://i19.tinypic.com/4xx0aad.jpg
> > Fourth summer (this year):http://i12.tinypic.com/4p13cpx.jpg
> Yes, I am a middle-aged person, normally sensible & cautious.
> However, I am currently living in a remote enough area that it is
> inconvenient to make my way to a nursery. It is likely I will live
> here till I die.
Ditto. Except I'm past middle aged.
> I find myself in a somewhat frustrating position. We do have a tiny
> nursery in the nearest village but several trees purchased there have
> been infected or otherwise defective and have died. It isn't my lack
> of care - they have an increasingly bad reputation. Worse, their
> guarantee is worth nothing. Only the Autumn Flame Maples have done
> well from that source, but they cost a blessed fortune and were
> brought up and planted by a landscaping company. They are now 12 feet
> tall even after 8-9 years, which I think is a bit slow since they were
> 6' when planted, not including the pot.
> The next best nursery is decent but is 60 miles away. The issue is
> that if I purchase a tree of any size, meaning over 5 feet tall,
> transport is difficult and costly. We have a pickup truck with normal
> size bed, but we would have to lay the trees down to transport,
> otherwise the wind generated by going down a highway would batter them
> senseless. Even then, they would sustain some damage if the tree is
> of decent size.
I live in a fairly rural area as well. The nearest respectable plant
nursery is a good 45 minute run, others are further. But I typically
meld multiple stops into my forays, so making a small detour to a
nursery is not any significant hardship in time or transportation
cost. All of the nurserys around here are aware that people travel a
distance so they package purchases with plastic wind protective
sheeting. I've not had a problem with wind damage... and I also lay
trees down in an open truck. I also keep a number of old blankets in
the truck at all times, I never know when I will need to protect
something in transport as I frequent local estate auctions; I have an
old lamp fetish.
With larger trees the reputable nurserys will deliver and plant for a
nominal fee. I've found it pays to get on good terms with the
nurserys, I return their pots and flats, often containing some plants
when I have extras and I usually do. In turn they give me nice
discounts. I also trade with my neighbors, that's a good way to
expand on variety. I have a large variety of trees growing on my
property and there are huge numbers of saplings growing at the edges
of my woods... I'd rather dig them up and give them away than mow them
down.
> On top of that, gas here is $3 a gallon and pickup
> trucks are not known for economy. I guess if we purchased a large
> enough number of trees, the trip would be worth while, if we could
> protect the trees. That's why I was considering mail order and
> thought someone might suggest a reputable one.
Gas is more than $3/gal most everywhere (my vehical gets only 12 miles/
gal), but I use it judiciously, my days of joyriding are long past.
Since I've retired I have no need to commute so the miles I now drive
average about 50 miles/month over a year. Last year I logged just
over 500 miles. I wish I didn't need to drive but alas there are some
necessary trips.
I still purchase some plants by mail order, because they are just not
available locally. I searched every nursery within a 100 miles for
almost a year but none carried sycamores, so I finally ordered the
bareroot seedlings from Nature Hills... I think they are doing very
well, I'm pleased.
Posted by thistletoes on July 20, 2007, 5:52 pm
> thistletoes wrote:
> > Sheldon wrote:
> > > thistletoes wrote:
> > > > I don't have enough time left in my life to mess around with foot tall
trees.
> > > Then you shouldn't even consider mail order trees. If you're a
> > > middle aged person you need to go to a local nursery and purchase
> > > substantially sized trees; balled and burlaped and a minimum of 3"
> > > caliper... and even then it's unlikely you'll live long enough to sit
> > > in the shade of any type of sapling tree, even those that are fast
> > > growing will need nearly 20 years before they look much like a shade
> > > tree... the first 3-4 years they won't exhibit any growth. The truth
> > > is that when you plant a tree it's for future generations, not for
> > > you... your enjoyment can only be in knowing that future generations
> > > will enjoy the fruits of you labor. Maybe you would do better
> > > planting a perennial garden.
> > > I planted many mail order trees and quite a few larger trees from a
> > > local nursery (in fact they were much too large for me to plant, the
> > > nursery sent a crew with heavy equipment to plant them). I realize
> > > that my main enjoyment is in that they lived and will one day be a
> > > tree, but long after I'm gone. Even the fastest grower, a sycamore,
> > > will need many more years before it begins to look representive of
> > > it's mature state. The sycamore was a bareroot from Nature Hills, was
> > > a three foot tall twig in a carboard box when it arrived, now it's
> > > nine feet tall, but has many years to go. I ordered a second one the
> > > next year, it's trying to catch up.
> > > Second summer:http://i18.tinypic.com/54knpli.jpg
> > > Third summer (last year):http://i19.tinypic.com/4xx0aad.jpg
> > > Fourth summer (this year):http://i12.tinypic.com/4p13cpx.jpg
> > Yes, I am a middle-aged person, normally sensible & cautious.
> > However, I am currently living in a remote enough area that it is
> > inconvenient to make my way to a nursery. It is likely I will live
> > here till I die.
> Ditto. Except I'm past middle aged.
> > I find myself in a somewhat frustrating position. We do have a tiny
> > nursery in the nearest village but several trees purchased there have
> > been infected or otherwise defective and have died. It isn't my lack
> > of care - they have an increasingly bad reputation. Worse, their
> > guarantee is worth nothing. Only the Autumn Flame Maples have done
> > well from that source, but they cost a blessed fortune and were
> > brought up and planted by a landscaping company. They are now 12 feet
> > tall even after 8-9 years, which I think is a bit slow since they were
> > 6' when planted, not including the pot.
> > The next best nursery is decent but is 60 miles away. The issue is
> > that if I purchase a tree of any size, meaning over 5 feet tall,
> > transport is difficult and costly. We have a pickup truck with normal
> > size bed, but we would have to lay the trees down to transport,
> > otherwise the wind generated by going down a highway would batter them
> > senseless. Even then, they would sustain some damage if the tree is
> > of decent size.
> I live in a fairly rural area as well. The nearest respectable plant
> nursery is a good 45 minute run, others are further. But I typically
> meld multiple stops into my forays, so making a small detour to a
> nursery is not any significant hardship in time or transportation
> cost. All of the nurserys around here are aware that people travel a
> distance so they package purchases with plastic wind protective
> sheeting. I've not had a problem with wind damage... and I also lay
> trees down in an open truck. I also keep a number of old blankets in
> the truck at all times, I never know when I will need to protect
> something in transport as I frequent local estate auctions; I have an
> old lamp fetish.
> With larger trees the reputable nurserys will deliver and plant for a
> nominal fee. I've found it pays to get on good terms with the
> nurserys, I return their pots and flats, often containing some plants
> when I have extras and I usually do. In turn they give me nice
> discounts. I also trade with my neighbors, that's a good way to
> expand on variety. I have a large variety of trees growing on my
> property and there are huge numbers of saplings growing at the edges
> of my woods... I'd rather dig them up and give them away than mow them
> down.
> > On top of that, gas here is $3 a gallon and pickup
> > trucks are not known for economy. I guess if we purchased a large
> > enough number of trees, the trip would be worth while, if we could
> > protect the trees. That's why I was considering mail order and
> > thought someone might suggest a reputable one.
> Gas is more than $3/gal most everywhere (my vehical gets only 12 miles/
> gal), but I use it judiciously, my days of joyriding are long past.
> Since I've retired I have no need to commute so the miles I now drive
> average about 50 miles/month over a year. Last year I logged just
> over 500 miles. I wish I didn't need to drive but alas there are some
> necessary trips.
> I still purchase some plants by mail order, because they are just not
> available locally. I searched every nursery within a 100 miles for
> almost a year but none carried sycamores, so I finally ordered the
> bareroot seedlings from Nature Hills... I think they are doing very
> well, I'm pleased.
I am envious to hear that nurseries in your area will deliver and
plant a tree for a nominal fee as you put it. The one nearest me,
about 10 miles down the mountain doesn't even answer their phone.
Deb
Posted by Sheldon on July 20, 2007, 8:38 pm
> > thistletoes wrote:
> > > Sheldon wrote:
> > > > thistletoes wrote:
> > > > > I don't have enough time left in my life to mess around with foot tall
trees.
> > > > Then you shouldn't even consider mail order trees. If you're a
> > > > middle aged person you need to go to a local nursery and purchase
> > > > substantially sized trees; balled and burlaped and a minimum of 3"
> > > > caliper... and even then it's unlikely you'll live long enough to sit
> > > > in the shade of any type of sapling tree, even those that are fast
> > > > growing will need nearly 20 years before they look much like a shade
> > > > tree... the first 3-4 years they won't exhibit any growth. The truth
> > > > is that when you plant a tree it's for future generations, not for
> > > > you... your enjoyment can only be in knowing that future generations
> > > > will enjoy the fruits of you labor. Maybe you would do better
> > > > planting a perennial garden.
> > > > I planted many mail order trees and quite a few larger trees from a
> > > > local nursery (in fact they were much too large for me to plant, the
> > > > nursery sent a crew with heavy equipment to plant them). I realize
> > > > that my main enjoyment is in that they lived and will one day be a
> > > > tree, but long after I'm gone. Even the fastest grower, a sycamore,
> > > > will need many more years before it begins to look representive of
> > > > it's mature state. The sycamore was a bareroot from Nature Hills, was
> > > > a three foot tall twig in a carboard box when it arrived, now it's
> > > > nine feet tall, but has many years to go. I ordered a second one the
> > > > next year, it's trying to catch up.
> > > > Second summer:http://i18.tinypic.com/54knpli.jpg
> > > > Third summer (last year):http://i19.tinypic.com/4xx0aad.jpg
> > > > Fourth summer (this year):http://i12.tinypic.com/4p13cpx.jpg
> > > Yes, I am a middle-aged person, normally sensible & cautious.
> > > However, I am currently living in a remote enough area that it is
> > > inconvenient to make my way to a nursery. It is likely I will live
> > > here till I die.
> > Ditto. Except I'm past middle aged.
> > > I find myself in a somewhat frustrating position. We do have a tiny
> > > nursery in the nearest village but several trees purchased there have
> > > been infected or otherwise defective and have died. It isn't my lack
> > > of care - they have an increasingly bad reputation. Worse, their
> > > guarantee is worth nothing. Only the Autumn Flame Maples have done
> > > well from that source, but they cost a blessed fortune and were
> > > brought up and planted by a landscaping company. They are now 12 feet
> > > tall even after 8-9 years, which I think is a bit slow since they were
> > > 6' when planted, not including the pot.
> > > The next best nursery is decent but is 60 miles away. The issue is
> > > that if I purchase a tree of any size, meaning over 5 feet tall,
> > > transport is difficult and costly. We have a pickup truck with normal
> > > size bed, but we would have to lay the trees down to transport,
> > > otherwise the wind generated by going down a highway would batter them
> > > senseless. Even then, they would sustain some damage if the tree is
> > > of decent size.
> > I live in a fairly rural area as well. The nearest respectable plant
> > nursery is a good 45 minute run, others are further. But I typically
> > meld multiple stops into my forays, so making a small detour to a
> > nursery is not any significant hardship in time or transportation
> > cost. All of the nurserys around here are aware that people travel a
> > distance so they package purchases with plastic wind protective
> > sheeting. I've not had a problem with wind damage... and I also lay
> > trees down in an open truck. I also keep a number of old blankets in
> > the truck at all times, I never know when I will need to protect
> > something in transport as I frequent local estate auctions; I have an
> > old lamp fetish.
> > With larger trees the reputable nurserys will deliver and plant for a
> > nominal fee. I've found it pays to get on good terms with the
> > nurserys, I return their pots and flats, often containing some plants
> > when I have extras and I usually do. In turn they give me nice
> > discounts. I also trade with my neighbors, that's a good way to
> > expand on variety. I have a large variety of trees growing on my
> > property and there are huge numbers of saplings growing at the edges
> > of my woods... I'd rather dig them up and give them away than mow them
> > down.
> > > On top of that, gas here is $3 a gallon and pickup
> > > trucks are not known for economy. I guess if we purchased a large
> > > enough number of trees, the trip would be worth while, if we could
> > > protect the trees. That's why I was considering mail order and
> > > thought someone might suggest a reputable one.
> > Gas is more than $3/gal most everywhere (my vehical gets only 12 miles/
> > gal), but I use it judiciously, my days of joyriding are long past.
> > Since I've retired I have no need to commute so the miles I now drive
> > average about 50 miles/month over a year. Last year I logged just
> > over 500 miles. I wish I didn't need to drive but alas there are some
> > necessary trips.
> > I still purchase some plants by mail order, because they are just not
> > available locally. I searched every nursery within a 100 miles for
> > almost a year but none carried sycamores, so I finally ordered the
> > bareroot seedlings from Nature Hills... I think they are doing very
> > well, I'm pleased.
> I am envious to hear that nurseries in your area will deliver and
> plant a tree for a nominal fee as you put it. The one nearest me,
> about 10 miles down the mountain doesn't even answer their phone.
Hmm, then I would assume they are not in business anymore, I'd go
elsewhere. Stores like Lowes, Home Depot, and Walmart have nice
nursery stock but their plants are small enough to transport and plant
yourself. But the large independant nurseries here in NY sell all
size plants and will deliver and plant for a fair price, but of course
the large plants aren't cheap. I purchased a 12 ft dawn redwood from
my favorite nursery for $450, they charged $150 to deliver and plant
it.... I considered that a very fair price considering the tree with
rootball must have weighed some 700 pounds. That was four years ago,
the tree is now about 20 feet tall and doing very well. I also bought
a dawn redwood in a 5 gallon pot, 4 foot tall, cost $59, that I
brought home and planted myself... has a very long way to go before it
catches up with the larger tree.
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> >
> > > I don't have enough time left in my life to mess around with foot tall