Posted by enigma on August 11, 2009, 9:37 am
u:
>> We'll need those guns and bullets as we transition into whatever
>> thieving rich get richer system seeks to replace capitalism in
>> the US. Couple of tweaked old men with .410s placed at the doors
>> of democratic town hall meetings might calm things down and allow
>> debate to proceed.
>
> On the other hand, when is the last time you heard of a "drive by"
> stabbing? The more guns there are, the more, bigger guns you need
> to protect yourself, so the reasoning goes. Unfortunately, the
> plutocrats who run this "kleptocracy" have changed my mind on gun
> control. Not that any of us would stand a chance when Blackwater
> comes calling at 3 AM.
not really true, Billy. the Revolution was won more by stealth &
courage than by guns. the Revolutionary Army of the new world
actually had more farm implements than guns & was among the first to
practice guerrilla warfare. the British had trouble adapting to such
tactics as firing from behind rock walls & trees, rather than
standing & firing in ranks.
it's really not the power of the weapon (since i doubt the
government is stupid enough to use nuclear weapons on the
disenfranchised), but the power of conviction.
now, if we could get the masses off their bread & circuses to see
what they can do, we'd get somewhere. with or without the
"government"
lee
Posted by David Hare-Scott on August 11, 2009, 6:54 pm
Rick wrote:
> He shot the kid with a single shot .410 shot gun. The smallest shot
> gun made, and not a war weapon. The kid wasn't innocent, he knew the
> old guy was tweaked about his lawn and walked on it repeatedly. So
> did his parents. I'm not defending the murder of an unarmed and
> stupid teenager, but guns and gun laws had very little to do with it.
Except that ready access to a gun makes it _so_ much easier for nutters to
do something leathal when they snap. The alternative is a lot of yelling
and frothing at the mouth and sometimes swinging a kitchen knife or shovel.
Sure you can kill somebody with a kitchen knife but its so much easier
easier with a gun.
> Lack of parenting and respect for others property, the arrogance of
> youth, combined with mental illness had everything to do with it. FWIW
> if a tweaked old man threatens to shoot you with a shot gun if you
> don't quit walking on his lawn, don't laugh, cuss at him and tell to
> "just try it". Our society murdered Martin just as surely as Martin
> murdered the boy.
Youth has always thumbed its nose a authority, shown disrespect and raised
the ire of their elders: this is nothing new. Sure the mental health of the
perpetrator and the flaws of society at large bear most of the blame for the
cause but if it wasn't for the convenient gun his chance of doing real harm
would have been so much less. This argument that because there are other
causes, that having a gun is not the primary cause, is very weak once you
look at the whole process not just the causes.
> We'll need those guns and bullets as we transition into whatever
> thieving rich get richer system seeks to replace capitalism in the US.
> Couple of tweaked old men with .410s placed at the doors of democratic
> town hall meetings might calm things down and allow debate to proceed.
A dark prediction and a darker solution.
David
Posted by zxcvbob on August 11, 2009, 9:13 pm
David Hare-Scott wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
>> We'll need those guns and bullets as we transition into whatever
>> thieving rich get richer system seeks to replace capitalism in the US.
>> Couple of tweaked old men with .410s placed at the doors of democratic
>> town hall meetings might calm things down and allow debate to proceed.
>
> A dark prediction and a darker solution.
>
> David
Read about the Battle of Athens (1946). It was not what (or where) you
might expect.
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1985/2/1985_2_72.shtml
Bob
Posted by enigma on August 15, 2009, 8:51 am
u:
> Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have an articulate and
> intelligent person at the helm of state again, but for all the
> populist talk, it doesn't look like our course is changing.
if you think *anyone* can change 8 years of regression is 6 months,
you must have thought you elected Superman. you are being unfair &
totally unrealistic.
also, a President can *suggest* laws and policy, but Congress has to
write it & pass it. Pelosi is obfusicating & dithering. she's a DINO,
a Bush flunkie in a Democrat wrapper. i believe she's from your
state, so you really should work at getting someone with a brain into
her office, instead of blaming the president for the branch of
government he doesn't control.
lee
Posted by Bill who putters on August 15, 2009, 5:48 pm
In article
>
> > u:
> >
> > > Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have an articulate and
> > > intelligent person at the helm of state again, but for all the
> > > populist talk, it doesn't look like our course is changing.
> >
> > if you think *anyone* can change 8 years of regression is 6 months,
> > you must have thought you elected Superman. you are being unfair &
> > totally unrealistic.
> > also, a President can *suggest* laws and policy, but Congress has to
> > write it & pass it. Pelosi is obfusicating & dithering. she's a DINO,
> > a Bush flunkie in a Democrat wrapper. i believe she's from your
> > state, so you really should work at getting someone with a brain into
> > her office, instead of blaming the president for the branch of
> > government he doesn't control.
> > lee
> Believe it or not, Pelosi represents San Francisco, and I agree
> completely with your characterization of her. Same with one of our
> Senators, Diane Feinstein, whose husband has made a fortune from Bush's
> Vanity Wars
> http://twincities.indymedia.org/2009/may/war-profiteer-insider-trader-dia
> nne-feinstein-resigns-comm-under-cloud
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/03/13/BUGIJ5JL7E
> 1.DTL&type=printable
>
>
> But Obama is commander in chief. He can't end the war, rendition, or
> torture?
> He can't call for the reinstatement of Glass/Steagal?
> He can't call for the reinstatement if the FISA Courts as they were
> before Bush?
> Many Democrats were elected into office on his coat-tails, they would do
> well to listen to his call. He was elected on the basis of change.
> Where's the beef?
>
> Poll: 2/3 Americans Support Investigating Bush Crimes
> http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/13/headlines#3
>
> We are now 8 mo. into the Obama Administration and what do we see? Big
> Pharma, and health insurance providers will make more money from the
> universal health care bill, because of back room deals.
>
> The Health Insurers Have Already Won
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm
>
> ³You Do Not Cut Deals with the System that Has to Be Replaced²: Ralph
> Nader on Secret White House Agreements with the Drug Industry
> http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/14/you_dont_cut_deals_with_the
>
> There seems to be no end to guaranteed $1M bonuses for bailed out
> companies,
> and the wars continue . . .
> http://www.reuters.com/article/americasCrisis/idUSN07411579
> http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/08/20098154136461692.html
>
> Nobody that is going to be the nominee of the Republican or the
> Democratic Party, is going to bring change. Those parties have been
> preempted by the plutocrats to insure a stable "kleptocracy".
<http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_History/Essays/Patterns_of_
Social_and_Political_Interaction>
I'm getting a head ache. A good sign I guess.
Bill
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
>> thieving rich get richer system seeks to replace capitalism in
>> the US. Couple of tweaked old men with .410s placed at the doors
>> of democratic town hall meetings might calm things down and allow
>> debate to proceed.
>
> On the other hand, when is the last time you heard of a "drive by"
> stabbing? The more guns there are, the more, bigger guns you need
> to protect yourself, so the reasoning goes. Unfortunately, the
> plutocrats who run this "kleptocracy" have changed my mind on gun
> control. Not that any of us would stand a chance when Blackwater
> comes calling at 3 AM.