Posted by songbird on June 19, 2011, 1:00 am
Derald wrote:
> Anybody put any stock in the notion? Anybody know of any actual data?
what do you mean by companion planting?
i have garlic growing in the middle of
the alfalfa/trefoil patch and it looks
to be doing just fine.
i don't have a control patch in the same
soil nearby so i wouldn't be able to do
a direct comparison this season. perhaps
i can line something up for next season in
some other patches since i am redoing anyways
and will have garlic scapes and seeds to
plant of the alfalfa and trefoil...
let you know what i come up with... :)
songbird
Posted by David Hare-Scott on June 19, 2011, 2:19 am
Derald wrote:
> Anybody put any stock in the notion? Anybody know of any actual data?
It depends on what you mean by it. Plants can influence other plants in a
variety of ways. The clearest example where there is hard data is I think
allelopathy. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy
Also you could call some forms of intercropping companion planting where
different plants share the same area and benefit each other in some way, for
example one supports then other or shades the other etc. Rotation could be
interpreted this way if you allow the companions to be sequential not
simultaneous.
That is not the same as the "rules" that you often see published in tables
where X "loves" Y, or W "hates" Z. Such tables often give no reason
whatsoever for the supposed effect. This doesn't mean that there is
necessarily no effect but in many cases it is unproven. Gardeners over many
generations have told each other many tales of what makes plants grow or
fail. Some of them are probably true but I wouldn't be rigidly following
any of the compatibility tables without corroborating evidence.
D
Posted by Steve Peek on June 19, 2011, 11:22 am
> Derald wrote:
>> Anybody put any stock in the notion? Anybody know of any actual data?
> It depends on what you mean by it. Plants can influence other plants in a
> variety of ways. The clearest example where there is hard data is I think
> allelopathy. See:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy
> Also you could call some forms of intercropping companion planting where
> different plants share the same area and benefit each other in some way,
> for example one supports then other or shades the other etc. Rotation
> could be interpreted this way if you allow the companions to be sequential
> not simultaneous.
> That is not the same as the "rules" that you often see published in tables
> where X "loves" Y, or W "hates" Z. Such tables often give no reason
> whatsoever for the supposed effect. This doesn't mean that there is
> necessarily no effect but in many cases it is unproven. Gardeners over
> many generations have told each other many tales of what makes plants grow
> or fail. Some of them are probably true but I wouldn't be rigidly
> following any of the compatibility tables without corroborating evidence.
> D
I like having basil planted in with the tomatoes. I don't know that they
help each other, but picking is easier for me as I often serve them
together. I've had marigolds in with the beans a couple of times, doesn't
seem to deter the bean beetles at all. Radishes are a good trap crop for
other plants that are prone to "flea beetle" attacks and make a decent
"nurse" crop for carrots. I think you will find lots of circumstantial
evidence for both sides of the question.
Steve
Posted by Derald on June 25, 2011, 1:18 am
>Derald wrote:
>> Anybody put any stock in the notion? Anybody know of any actual data?
>It depends on what you mean by it. Plants can influence other plants in a
>variety of ways. The clearest example where there is hard data is I think
>allelopathy. See:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy
Yes, I am familiar with the phenomenon, although, it, too is much-bandied
about in the popular gardening press with little factual support. The indigenous
(N.A.) black walnut tree (Juglans nigra) is notorious for its debilitation of a
number of food plants. I've had my own purely anecdotal bad experience with
wheat straw as mulch for leafy greens (mustard). You may find this item from my
state's regional land-grant university to be of passing interest:
<http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/hs186> .
>Also you could call some forms of intercropping companion planting where
>different plants share the same area and benefit each other in some way, for
>example one supports then other or shades the other etc.
I intercrop relentlessly wherever practicable with primary consideration to
similarities of nutrient and water requirements and with maturation and
succession secondary but still important. I have a very tiny raised-bed garden
and the good fortune to live in a climate that, with a little planning, allows
for year-'round productivity.
> Rotation could be interpreted this way if you allow the companions to be
sequential not
>simultaneous.
I had not thought of rotation or succession planting in those terms but you
make a good point, IMO. I try to follow one crop with a second of complemetary
needs but that's not a hard-and-fast rule because of how the gardening season
works here. For example, it is possible to follow a spring planting with a late
summer planting of a "heavy feeder" and make a second crop before chilly weather
takes it out (curcurbits are good examples) and then follow it with something
like ("English") peas which will come in around Nov.-Dec. and, with a little
care, overwinter most years.
>That is not the same as the "rules" that you often see published in tables
>where X "loves" Y, or W "hates" Z. Such tables often give no reason
>whatsoever for the supposed effect. This doesn't mean that there is
>necessarily no effect but in many cases it is unproven.
Which lead to my original post. Found myself unexpectedly having available
space in a bed of peppers and aubergine and considering planting round snap
beans under them. Contradictory "information", sometimes on the same Web site,
about the companionability(?) of beans and peppers prompted my query. Of course,
I planted the beans, anyway (19-6, my date), and they're doing well so far.
--
Derald
FL USDA zone 9a
http://www.onlineconversion.com/
Posted by songbird on June 22, 2011, 9:48 am
Derald wrote:
>songbird wrote:
>>what do you mean by companion planting?
> I mean deliberately planting different kinds of vegetables together in the
> same bed with the expectation that some or all will benefit from proximity to
> the others; conversely, deliberately _not_ planting certain kinds of vegetables
> together in the belief that each suffers from proximity to the others. Popular
> gardening literature, as well as the W3, abounds with all manner of anecdotal
> and conflicting "information", which simply means to me that none of it is to
be
> taken at its face value.
without a control test patches in the same soil
it is hard to tell. the two small gardens i have
growing peas and greens (one leaf lettuces and the
other spinach) i don't have enough space to do
a control test patch. it looks like the peas are
shading the greens and that provides some help on
the hot days, but the greens probably do nothing
at all for the peas and probably take away some
of the moisture that they'd like to do better.
we've been enjoying the peas this year so i will
probably plant them again a few more times in
various places to keep them going.
the garlic i have planted right in the alfalfa
and birdsfoot trefoil looks to be doing fine, but
i have no nearby test comparison plots for them
either. once i have some scapes ready i'll be
able to set up a test for the next garlic growing
season. i have enough space left in the garden
i'm redoing now. this will be fun. :) just gotta
wait until the scapes are ready...
> The personal issue for me is whether to plant bush beans under existing
> peppers, eggplant, marigolds.
do half and compare.
> All are in the same bed; the marigolds are
> expendable; the bed also contains a bush-type yellow squash that will be caged.
> My inclination is to go ahead and plant the beans this evening because there is
> no time for dithering
will they fry in the heat?
songbird
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