Posted by 0tterbot on January 2, 2007, 3:59 am
> g'day kylie,
> yes a very vexing question with no direct answer, being on an eastern
> aspect should mean you have less of an affect than say someone on a
> western aspect. a northern aspect should then fair better again.
> and using sustainable permaculture type methods can seem to at times
> make matters worse ie i am of the school of thought of mulching
> heavily to insulate the root zones and while that does work well i
> find that the only places i was getting visible frost was on top of
> the mulch in light to medium frosts.
> and again working the contours with mulch rows or swales is then going
> to have the effect of trapping frost as it flows down the slope.
> hopefully by putting these observations in the melting pot you then be
> better able to work out some solution in your case, as you are there
> on site and in real time.
i'll need to do some experimenting & some hoping for the best, but any rate
i'm glad i asked here for some ideas!! i have a few plans afoot now (which
i'll get to when i'm finished with my new, luxurious chicken accommodation,
which has taken me a long time to get to due to other commitments, and...
well, you know how it is ;-). before asking, i was merely viewing the entire
problem with helpless rage <g> (and some hessian covers - i'm not a complete
push-over).
> now having said all of that our planning was over the long term to
> create rows of trees to act as not only wind breaks and create shade
> from the western sun but grown along the contours high up on the
> western side they should then when much older help to lessen frost as
> warm air is trapped with the tree planting canopy. if you read
> mollesons into to perm' i think he alludes to this somewhere in there
> but me not sure of that is i don't read hard copy that much.
> anyhow saw a doco' on tv of later years about a chappy using p/c
> principals around kempsey/casino area he usd tree canopy to all but
> remove frost incidences from his project.
i think when it begins frosting again, i'll make more observations about
where it's happening, in relation to trees etc. (and my new rock walls i'll
have by then).
> also to keep in mind where frost generally in still conditions will
> flow down hill it can with a light breeze behind it be propelled
> uphill.
> and the frost we talk of here is the white visible type frost, these
> can be managed using sprinklers from just before dawns greyness to
> after the sun has risen, you can use covers, and another farmer trick
> is to lay a smoke screen using fires burning green material in 44
> gallon drums (might be frowned on in current time?) this lays a cover
> of warm air like a blanket it needs to be down wind of the plants to
> be protected.
> BUT we found we wasted lots of water saving things that ultimately got
> destroyed because a black frost came though these in our case would
> come throuhg with the cold front usually around midnight, so in the
> end we planted for hardiness and used the rule if they live they live
> if they don't they don't as wasting water was not sustainable apart
> from getting out of bed into the freezing cold outside while partener
> was warm and cosy in bed mmm there ya go lol.
well, that's exactly it :-) what is a black frost?
> so in short trees and covers i reckon, you may need a grow tunnel so
> you have the summer crops long enough?
i'm going to make some of those (it's on my exceedingly long to-do list).
ideally i'd have had them for this spring, but i was in such a hurry i just
did the garden anyway without any sort of cloches or anything, & then felt
sad about how much it would have helped. i'm also getting less naive about
conditions here, too ;-)
> happy new year
you too! thanks for the tips.
kylie
Posted by gardenlen on January 2, 2007, 1:51 pm
g'day kylie,
yes observing will help you decide your best action with all
suggestions in the melting pot.
black forst is where you don't see frost but the plants get burnt
anyway we used to get it on occassion it would only present in small
patches i would suggest that those spots are where the air was the
coldest.
that is why in the end i covered things up and didn't bother geting
out of bed to hose off teh white frost because it only took 1 black
frost and that made all your efforts and especially water wasted.
i would use hay/straw from bales to cover plants with over night and
remove it the next day i did this with frost sensative trees like
pawpaws and it saved the main crown from damage.
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,
len
--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
Posted by 0tterbot on January 3, 2007, 7:13 am
> g'day kylie,
> yes observing will help you decide your best action with all
> suggestions in the melting pot.
> black forst is where you don't see frost but the plants get burnt
> anyway we used to get it on occassion it would only present in small
> patches i would suggest that those spots are where the air was the
> coldest.
hm.
> that is why in the end i covered things up and didn't bother geting
> out of bed to hose off teh white frost because it only took 1 black
> frost and that made all your efforts and especially water wasted.
> i would use hay/straw from bales to cover plants with over night and
> remove it the next day i did this with frost sensative trees like
> pawpaws and it saved the main crown from damage.
did you cover thickly? was it a hassle? when i have an asparagus bed ( the
plants are only a few weeks old, and very tiny and cute ;-) i was under the
impression you do this, but cut the plants down first & then just spread the
straw over the top for the winter. i image you can just do it anyway with
any plant, though, within reason.
kylie
Posted by gardenlen on January 3, 2007, 3:01 pm
kylie,
with those plants that wher dormant in winter they where covered
conmpletely ie.,. the ginger as there was no top growth left.
but with growing stuff like pumpkins and pawpaw i covered with enough
of a loose layer to create a barrier of warmer air, this with heavily
mulched root runs which kept the root runs warmer all helped.
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,
len
--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."
http://www.lensgarden.com.au/
Posted by Farm1 on January 3, 2007, 9:57 pm
> did you cover thickly?
Be careful with mulch - too thick and you can't water through it. For
frost coverage, it depends on what you are covering - if its a crown
of a sensitive plant - put it on thick but only over the crown -
thinner over the root area as it's the crown that needs protection.you
dont' need the cover to be too thick
> was it a hassle?
:-)) Depends on how you value the plant.
when i have an asparagus bed ( the
> plants are only a few weeks old, and very tiny and cute ;-) i was
under the
> impression you do this, but cut the plants down first & then just
spread the
> straw over the top for the winter.
Asparagus is as tough as old boots. The mulch is really more about
feeding and building up height so that you are cutting long new stems.
I've changed my mind 3 or 4 times about the location of the asparagus
bed and each time I leave some crowns behind but they keep coming up
in all sorts of impoassible places. I have one which is still coming
up where I now have my clothes line and the soil there is as dry and
like concrete as it's possible for soil to be. That spot for a bed
must have been at least 10?? years ago. I was only saying yesterday
that it and the other rogue plants I need to be moved to where the
next asparagus bed is going to go.
XML site map
> yes a very vexing question with no direct answer, being on an eastern
> aspect should mean you have less of an affect than say someone on a
> western aspect. a northern aspect should then fair better again.
> and using sustainable permaculture type methods can seem to at times
> make matters worse ie i am of the school of thought of mulching
> heavily to insulate the root zones and while that does work well i
> find that the only places i was getting visible frost was on top of
> the mulch in light to medium frosts.
> and again working the contours with mulch rows or swales is then going
> to have the effect of trapping frost as it flows down the slope.
> hopefully by putting these observations in the melting pot you then be
> better able to work out some solution in your case, as you are there
> on site and in real time.