Posted by Jock on November 8, 2009, 5:37 am
the planet has been warming up since the peak (trough) of the last ice age -
cashing in on a natural cycle? Who'd a thought?
: >> Jonno wrote:
:
Posted by Jonno on November 8, 2009, 2:20 pm
Please note. All these itmes can be found on the internet.
Google any sentence:
One thing that happened last time re exploitation.
The so called fluorocarbon used for refrigeration...
Replaced by a more safe refrigerant that would help the ozone layer.
The fact that DuPont's patent on this manufactured gas was about to run out
was a coincidence of course.
From Wikipedia>>
The Ozone depletion layer has been increasing, or shown no sign of recovery
of course.
The year 2008 saw the longest lasting hole on record, which remained until
the end of December.[89] The hole was detected by scientists in 1985[90] and
has tended to increase over the years of observation. The ozone hole is
attributed to the emission of chlorofluorocarbons or CFCs into the
atmosphere, which decompose the ozone into other gases
From Duponts site >>
DuPont led the industry in the phaseout of CFCs and transition to
environmentally acceptable alternatives. At the time, DuPont estimated that
more than $135 billion of existing equipment in the United States alone
depended on CFCs. In January 1991, DuPont was the first company to launch a
family of refrigerant alternatives that met performance, safety and
environmental criteria and could be used in existing as well as new
equipment, thus minimizing the transition cost to thousands of businesses
and consumers around the world. The company invested more than $500 million
to develop and commercialize CFC alternatives. CFCs accounted for less than
2 percent of the company's revenues.
Not from their site, based on suspicion...>>>There is considerable evidence
that the ban on R -12 is based on bogus information and orchestrated by
Dupont because their patent on Freon was running out. It's unlikely the
decision will ever be reversed but it's just one more example of how big
business is wagging the dog.<<<<
PS the company is amongst the "most trustworthy" in the world. Er, if you
can fake sincerity you've got it made?
Funny that they are also in the seed business...
From the page: "DuPont today announced it is commercializing soybean
varieties developed using a technology that increases yields by as much as
12 percent per acre. DuPont seed business Pioneer Hi-Bred is introducing
five varieties with the technology for 2008 planting, pending wide-area
product advancement trial results. It wound be gene modification would it?
> the planet has been warming up since the peak (trough) of the last ice
> age -
> cashing in on a natural cycle? Who'd a thought?
> : >> Jonno wrote:
> :
>
Posted by David Hare-Scott on November 8, 2009, 11:19 pm
Jonno wrote:
It seems that you have a propensity to accept conspiracy theories that I
lack - perhaps its genetic. I begin to think that we are not going to agree
on much.
> Please note. All these itmes can be found on the internet.
> Google any sentence:
> One thing that happened last time re exploitation.
> The so called fluorocarbon used for refrigeration...
> Replaced by a more safe refrigerant that would help the ozone layer.
> The fact that DuPont's patent on this manufactured gas was about to
> run out was a coincidence of course.
> From Wikipedia>>
> The Ozone depletion layer has been increasing, or shown no sign of
> recovery of course.
You didn't read the whole Wikipedia article, the recovery is not expected to
take place for some time.
" It is calculated that a CFC molecule takes an average of 15 years to go
from the ground level up to the upper atmosphere, and it can stay there for
about a century, destroying up to one hundred thousand ozone molecules
during that time."
but it is starting
"Since 1981 the United Nations Environment Programme has sponsored a series
of reports on scientific assessment of ozone depletion. The most recent is
from 2007 where satellite measurements have shown the hole in the ozone
layer is recovering and is now the smallest it has been for about a decade"
> The year 2008 saw the longest lasting hole on record, which remained
> until the end of December.[89] The hole was detected by scientists in
> 1985[90] and has tended to increase over the years of observation.
> The ozone hole is attributed to the emission of chlorofluorocarbons
> or CFCs into the atmosphere, which decompose the ozone into other
> gases
> From Duponts site >>
> DuPont led the industry in the phaseout of CFCs and transition to
> environmentally acceptable alternatives. At the time, DuPont
> estimated that more than $135 billion of existing equipment in the
> United States alone depended on CFCs. In January 1991, DuPont was the
> first company to launch a family of refrigerant alternatives that met
> performance, safety and environmental criteria and could be used in
> existing as well as new equipment, thus minimizing the transition
> cost to thousands of businesses and consumers around the world. The
> company invested more than $500 million to develop and commercialize
> CFC alternatives. CFCs accounted for less than 2 percent of the
> company's revenues.
> Not from their site, based on suspicion...>>>There is considerable
> evidence that the ban on R -12 is based on bogus information and
Please tell me where to find the considerable evidence of the bogus
information or who said that it existed.
> orchestrated by Dupont because their patent on Freon was running out.
> It's unlikely the decision will ever be reversed but it's just one
> more example of how big business is wagging the dog.<<<<
It is odd to have DuPont accused of making it all up when they denied it was
happening.
Also from Wikipedia
"The Rowland-Molina hypothesis was strongly disputed by representatives of
the aerosol and halocarbon industries. The Chair of the Board of DuPont was
quoted as saying that ozone depletion theory is "a science fiction tale...a
load of rubbish...utter nonsense"."
If the link between CFCs and ozone depletion were all phantom why did so
many countries sign the Montreal agreement? Are you saying all their
scientists were under the thumb of big business?
Also from Wikipedia
"At Montreal, the participants agreed to freeze production of CFCs at 1986
levels and to reduce production by 50% by 1999. After a series of scientific
expeditions to the Antarctic produced convincing evidence that the ozone
hole was indeed caused by chlorine and bromine from manmade organohalogens,
the Montreal Protocol was strengthened at a 1990 meeting in London."
As with the previous case I would be interested to know where you found this
conspiracy theory.
David
Posted by Jonno on November 13, 2009, 6:14 am
> Jonno wrote:
> It seems that you have a propensity to accept conspiracy theories that I
> lack - perhaps its genetic. I begin to think that we are not going to
> agree on much.
>> Please note. All these itmes can be found on the internet.
>> Google any sentence:
>>
>> One thing that happened last time re exploitation.
>> The so called fluorocarbon used for refrigeration...
>> Replaced by a more safe refrigerant that would help the ozone layer.
>> The fact that DuPont's patent on this manufactured gas was about to
>> run out was a coincidence of course.
>> From Wikipedia>>
>> The Ozone depletion layer has been increasing, or shown no sign of
>> recovery of course.
> You didn't read the whole Wikipedia article, the recovery is not expected
> to take place for some time.
> " It is calculated that a CFC molecule takes an average of 15 years to go
> from the ground level up to the upper atmosphere, and it can stay there
> for about a century, destroying up to one hundred thousand ozone molecules
> during that time."
> but it is starting
> "Since 1981 the United Nations Environment Programme has sponsored a
> series of reports on scientific assessment of ozone depletion. The most
> recent is from 2007 where satellite measurements have shown the hole in
> the ozone layer is recovering and is now the smallest it has been for
> about a decade"
>> The year 2008 saw the longest lasting hole on record, which remained
>> until the end of December.[89] The hole was detected by scientists in
>> 1985[90] and has tended to increase over the years of observation.
>> The ozone hole is attributed to the emission of chlorofluorocarbons
>> or CFCs into the atmosphere, which decompose the ozone into other
>> gases
>>
>> From Duponts site >>
>> DuPont led the industry in the phaseout of CFCs and transition to
>> environmentally acceptable alternatives. At the time, DuPont
>> estimated that more than $135 billion of existing equipment in the
>> United States alone depended on CFCs. In January 1991, DuPont was the
>> first company to launch a family of refrigerant alternatives that met
>> performance, safety and environmental criteria and could be used in
>> existing as well as new equipment, thus minimizing the transition
>> cost to thousands of businesses and consumers around the world. The
>> company invested more than $500 million to develop and commercialize
>> CFC alternatives. CFCs accounted for less than 2 percent of the
>> company's revenues.
>> Not from their site, based on suspicion...>>>There is considerable
>> evidence that the ban on R -12 is based on bogus information and
> Please tell me where to find the considerable evidence of the bogus
> information or who said that it existed.
>> orchestrated by Dupont because their patent on Freon was running out.
>> It's unlikely the decision will ever be reversed but it's just one
>> more example of how big business is wagging the dog.<<<<
>>
> It is odd to have DuPont accused of making it all up when they denied it
> was happening.
> Also from Wikipedia
> "The Rowland-Molina hypothesis was strongly disputed by representatives of
> the aerosol and halocarbon industries. The Chair of the Board of DuPont
> was quoted as saying that ozone depletion theory is "a science fiction
> tale...a load of rubbish...utter nonsense"."
Of course they wouldnt want it to look like they had nothing to do with it.
But its rather "strange" that refridgerant that is cheaper to use wont be
used as its "flammable"
What is this gas Dupont doesnt have a patent on thats flammable?
Standard barbeque LP gas! Its used in James Bond films and pressure pack
dispensers as the propellant.
Its so dangerous, that they use in in those kind of cans, but they cant use
it in refridgeration?
Ah yes, it might explode. In a sealed refirdgeration unit? Im "bloody"
possible.
Coming from the refridgeration industry I know.
So was it about patents or not.
Oh yes, where is my source. Im the source. As are others from Popular
Science who also touted the idea.
It was all about making money from an unsuspecting public.
> If the link between CFCs and ozone depletion were all phantom why did so
> many countries sign the Montreal agreement? Are you saying all their
> scientists were under the thumb of big business?
YES
> Also from Wikipedia
> "At Montreal, the participants agreed to freeze production of CFCs at 1986
> levels and to reduce production by 50% by 1999. After a series of
> scientific expeditions to the Antarctic produced convincing evidence that
> the ozone hole was indeed caused by chlorine and bromine from manmade
> organohalogens, the Montreal Protocol was strengthened at a 1990 meeting
> in London."
As I wrote, the ozone hole is still huge...2009 /09 will show the same. See
the above^^^ top of page...
Will it ever get smaller?
Probably not. But when those who have forgotten about what they forecast,
it wont matter.
Posted by Jonno on November 8, 2009, 9:03 pm
> the planet has been warming up since the peak (trough) of the last ice
> age -
> cashing in on a natural cycle? Who'd a thought?
> : >> Jonno wrote:
> :
Then there is this, from our own Dennis Jensen, a scientist, ex CSIRO.
His web page tells it as he sees it....
I believe him to be a socially minded HONEST politician.
http://www.dennisjensen.com.au/
They may want to get rid of him, as he has standards...
Ooop. This is a gardening area, but in this instance NOT off topic.
It affect more than just gardeners...
XML site map
> age -
> cashing in on a natural cycle? Who'd a thought?
> : >> Jonno wrote:
> :
>