Re: Overhead or underhand

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Re: Overhead or underhand Charlie 06-24-2008
Posted by on June 24, 2008, 10:49 am
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On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:21:11 -0400, "Dan L."


>Also, I base my life on reasoning. Most reasoning fails at the
>presupposition level and most presuppositions are based on belief in
>which all the facts are not there. If my presuppositions are wrong I
>will change them. The existence of God was the biggest change.
>
>Excellent Questions Billy !!!!!
>You ask the questions that most people would not even dream of !!!!
>
>Enjoy Life ... Dan

Interesting passage by Einstein follows, that seems to apply somehow.
I not be schmart enough to fully grasp and reason out most things, let
alone "debate" or "justify" my positions...I depend upon others to
speak of that which I understand, yet cannot articulate or communicate
on my own...sometimes you just go with your gut and honor the
mysterious.

--
Charlie

>Our situation on this earth seems strange. Every one of us appears here
>involuntarily and uninvited for a short stay, without knowing the whys and
>the wherefore. In our daily lives we only feel that man is here for the sake
>of others, for those whom we love and for many other beings whose fate is
>connected with our own. I am often worried at the thought that my life is
>based to such a large extent on the work of my fellow human beings and I am
>aware of my great indebtedness to them. I do not believe in freedom of the
>will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will
>what he wills' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and
>reconcile me with the actions of others even if they are rather painful to
>me. This awareness of the lack of freedom of will preserves me from taking
>too seriously myself and my fellow men as acting and deciding individuals
>and from losing my temper.
>
>I never coveted affluence and luxury and even despise them a good deal. My
>passion for social justice has often brought me into conflict with people,
>as did my aversion to any obligation and dependence I do not regard as
>absolutely necessary. I always have a high regard for the individual and
>have an insuperable distaste for violence and clubmanship. All these motives
>made me into a passionate pacifist and anti-militarist. I am against any
>nationalism, even in the guise of mere patriotism. Privileges based on
>position and property have always seemed to me unjust and pernicious, as did
>any exaggerated personality cult.
>
>I am an adherent of the ideal of democracy, although I well know the
>weaknesses of the democratic form of government. Social equality and
>economic protection of the individual appeared to me always as the important
>communal aims of the state. Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my
>consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive
>for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated. The
>most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the
>mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all
>serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems
>to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that
>can be experienced there is a something that our mind cannot grasp and whose
>beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection,
>this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to
>wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere
>image of the lofty structure of all that there is."
>
>-- Albert Einstein

Posted by Dan L. on June 24, 2008, 9:22 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options

> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:21:11 -0400, "Dan L."
>
>
> >Also, I base my life on reasoning. Most reasoning fails at the
> >presupposition level and most presuppositions are based on belief in
> >which all the facts are not there. If my presuppositions are wrong I
> >will change them. The existence of God was the biggest change.
> >
> >Excellent Questions Billy !!!!!
> >You ask the questions that most people would not even dream of !!!!
> >
> >Enjoy Life ... Dan
>
> Interesting passage by Einstein follows, that seems to apply somehow.
> I not be schmart enough to fully grasp and reason out most things, let
> alone "debate" or "justify" my positions...I depend upon others to
> speak of that which I understand, yet cannot articulate or communicate
> on my own...sometimes you just go with your gut and honor the
> mysterious.
>
> --
> Charlie
>
> >Our situation on this earth seems strange. Every one of us appears here
> >involuntarily and uninvited for a short stay, without knowing the whys and
> >the wherefore. In our daily lives we only feel that man is here for the sake
> >of others, for those whom we love and for many other beings whose fate is
> >connected with our own. I am often worried at the thought that my life is
> >based to such a large extent on the work of my fellow human beings and I am
> >aware of my great indebtedness to them. I do not believe in freedom of the
> >will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will
> >what he wills' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and
> >reconcile me with the actions of others even if they are rather painful to
> >me. This awareness of the lack of freedom of will preserves me from taking
> >too seriously myself and my fellow men as acting and deciding individuals
> >and from losing my temper.
> >
> >I never coveted affluence and luxury and even despise them a good deal. My
> >passion for social justice has often brought me into conflict with people,
> >as did my aversion to any obligation and dependence I do not regard as
> >absolutely necessary. I always have a high regard for the individual and
> >have an insuperable distaste for violence and clubmanship. All these motives
> >made me into a passionate pacifist and anti-militarist. I am against any
> >nationalism, even in the guise of mere patriotism. Privileges based on
> >position and property have always seemed to me unjust and pernicious, as did
> >any exaggerated personality cult.
> >
> >I am an adherent of the ideal of democracy, although I well know the
> >weaknesses of the democratic form of government. Social equality and
> >economic protection of the individual appeared to me always as the important
> >communal aims of the state. Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my
> >consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive
> >for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated. The
> >most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the
> >mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all
> >serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems
> >to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that
> >can be experienced there is a something that our mind cannot grasp and whose
> >beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection,
> >this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to
> >wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere
> >image of the lofty structure of all that there is."
> >
> >-- Albert Einstein

I have several books by and about Einstein, technical and non. A very
interesting person. Most people are very religious then and today. When
one is born and completely surrounded by religious people one will often
accept the norm, Einstein included.

Times were different in my time. Evolution was taught in my science
classes in high school, religion was not. I was raised by a strong
fundamentalist family. I did not become an Atheist until 28 years old
(52 now). The two worlds of religion and science was crashing in my
mind. I could not merge or resolve the two worlds. One had to give. I
read the three different bibles, King James, NIV and the Standard, back
to back along with other references. It took four years of reading. One
reference book finished it for me - "Bible Difficulties by Archer". When
I finished his book - I was an Atheist. It was like removing the
heaviest weights off my shoulders and freed my mind.

If Einstein was born today, I have no doubt he would also be an atheist.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

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Overhead or underhand June 18, 2008, 1:20 pm

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