Poppy issue

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Subject Author Date
Poppy issue Polly the Parrot 07-10-2008
---> Re: Poppy issue David Hare-Scot...07-10-2008
| `--> Re: Poppy issue Polly the Parro...07-11-2008
Posted by Trish Brown on July 12, 2008, 2:06 am
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0tterbot wrote:
> Just
>> as an example: a garden fork costing $39 at Bunnings was $72 at the
>> nursery! Same brand, same size, same everything. Vastly different price!
>
> that really only means the fork is worth $72 but you got it cheaper. by this
> point everyone knows that bunnings (and so forth) do that. bringing down the
> public's expectations of what things are actually "worth" is part of the
> problem.
>
> if i want cheap tools, i buy second-hand anyway. my forks were a few dollars
> each :-) (probably that's all they're "worth", too <g>)
> kylie
>
>
ROTFLMAO! Let me tell you, I had no problem at all paying $39 instead of
$72!

Yes, I understand the supermarket mentality as well as anyone, however
I'm not silly enough to stand on ceremony and fork out (Hee! I did a
pun!) almost double the amount of money for an item.

It has been my experience that things are 'worth' what the market will
bear. For example, I started working in the computer industry 'way back
when it was a pretty rarified atmosphere and needed consultants such as
my good self to ease people into their first computer purchase. We used
to make 32% in retail sales. When I left the industry in the mid-1990s,
all we could make was a bare 8% and struggled to earn extra with
value-added services. Today, I shudder to think what small businesses
make compared to the huge buying power of the chain stores. But we, the
consumer, want cheaper prices and ease of access and one-stop shopping.
We certainly do get what we pay for, I find.

--
Trish Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Posted by 0tterbot on July 14, 2008, 8:23 pm
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> 0tterbot wrote:
>> Just
>>> as an example: a garden fork costing $39 at Bunnings was $72 at the
>>> nursery! Same brand, same size, same everything. Vastly different price!
>>
>> that really only means the fork is worth $72 but you got it cheaper. by
>> this point everyone knows that bunnings (and so forth) do that. bringing
>> down the public's expectations of what things are actually "worth" is
>> part of the problem.
>>
>> if i want cheap tools, i buy second-hand anyway. my forks were a few
>> dollars each :-) (probably that's all they're "worth", too <g>)
>> kylie
> ROTFLMAO! Let me tell you, I had no problem at all paying $39 instead of
> $72!
>
> Yes, I understand the supermarket mentality as well as anyone, however I'm
> not silly enough to stand on ceremony and fork out (Hee! I did a pun!)
> almost double the amount of money for an item.
>
> It has been my experience that things are 'worth' what the market will
> bear.

no. that's just one way (of several) of setting a sale price; generally used
in conjunction with other factors. it's no reflection of "worth". bunnings
advertising insinuates they're actually performing some sort of public
service.

For example, I started working in the computer industry 'way back
> when it was a pretty rarified atmosphere and needed consultants such as my
> good self to ease people into their first computer purchase. We used to
> make 32% in retail sales. When I left the industry in the mid-1990s, all
> we could make was a bare 8% and struggled to earn extra with value-added
> services. Today, I shudder to think what small businesses make compared to
> the huge buying power of the chain stores. But we, the consumer, want
> cheaper prices and ease of access and one-stop shopping.

well i'm a citizen & human being, not a "consumer", so apparently i don't
:-)

> We certainly do get what we pay for, I find.

yes and no. further to my second-hand fork experience, i have two
second-hand ones (several dollars each) and a new one dh bought. the first
thing i did to my new fork was bent one of the tines on a hidden rock. i
suppose now it's only worth as much as its two fellow forks, isn't it?
seeing as i have no preference for any of them over the others, they are all
"worth" the same anyway, notwithstanding bent tines or not. in 5 years'
time, i'll have used the old ones as much as the newer one with the same
result (forked ground, one hopes, not bent tines!), therefore there can be
no drop in "worth" in any of them unless they become unusable.

so i would say, if you don't think a fork is "worth" wholesale cost plus
ordinary retail markup (i.e. $72), by all means don't pay it - get a second
hand one for $5. that's more clever than giving $39 to a company whose
policy is to drive out all competition (up to and including coffee & cakes,
for heaven's sake), thus enabling themselves to sell $39 forks to people who
are currently unemployed because their workplace folded under the pressure
of bunnings existence. :-)
kylie




Posted by Trish Brown on July 15, 2008, 1:03 am
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0tterbot wrote:
>> 0tterbot wrote:
>>> Just
>>>> as an example: a garden fork costing $39 at Bunnings was $72 at the
>>>> nursery! Same brand, same size, same everything. Vastly different price!
>>> that really only means the fork is worth $72 but you got it cheaper. by
>>> this point everyone knows that bunnings (and so forth) do that. bringing
>>> down the public's expectations of what things are actually "worth" is
>>> part of the problem.
>>>
>>> if i want cheap tools, i buy second-hand anyway. my forks were a few
>>> dollars each :-) (probably that's all they're "worth", too <g>)
>>> kylie
>> ROTFLMAO! Let me tell you, I had no problem at all paying $39 instead of
>> $72!
>>
>> Yes, I understand the supermarket mentality as well as anyone, however I'm
>> not silly enough to stand on ceremony and fork out (Hee! I did a pun!)
>> almost double the amount of money for an item.
>>
>> It has been my experience that things are 'worth' what the market will
>> bear.
>
> no. that's just one way (of several) of setting a sale price; generally used
> in conjunction with other factors. it's no reflection of "worth". bunnings
> advertising insinuates they're actually performing some sort of public
> service.
>
> For example, I started working in the computer industry 'way back
>> when it was a pretty rarified atmosphere and needed consultants such as my
>> good self to ease people into their first computer purchase. We used to
>> make 32% in retail sales. When I left the industry in the mid-1990s, all
>> we could make was a bare 8% and struggled to earn extra with value-added
>> services. Today, I shudder to think what small businesses make compared to
>> the huge buying power of the chain stores. But we, the consumer, want
>> cheaper prices and ease of access and one-stop shopping.
>
> well i'm a citizen & human being, not a "consumer", so apparently i don't
> :-)
>
>> We certainly do get what we pay for, I find.
>
> yes and no. further to my second-hand fork experience, i have two
> second-hand ones (several dollars each) and a new one dh bought. the first
> thing i did to my new fork was bent one of the tines on a hidden rock. i
> suppose now it's only worth as much as its two fellow forks, isn't it?
> seeing as i have no preference for any of them over the others, they are all
> "worth" the same anyway, notwithstanding bent tines or not. in 5 years'
> time, i'll have used the old ones as much as the newer one with the same
> result (forked ground, one hopes, not bent tines!), therefore there can be
> no drop in "worth" in any of them unless they become unusable.
>
> so i would say, if you don't think a fork is "worth" wholesale cost plus
> ordinary retail markup (i.e. $72), by all means don't pay it - get a second
> hand one for $5. that's more clever than giving $39 to a company whose
> policy is to drive out all competition (up to and including coffee & cakes,
> for heaven's sake), thus enabling themselves to sell $39 forks to people who
> are currently unemployed because their workplace folded under the pressure
> of bunnings existence. :-)
> kylie
>
>
>
Geez, Otterbot, did you have a punnet of Bunnings seedlings die on you
or something? You sure don't like 'em! ;-D

By all means, go ahead and choke Bunnings out of the marketplace by
purchasing your forks for $5! Until you succeed, however, I'll be a
happy customer and purchase mine for $39. The one I've got seems to be
quite stout and it'll be a while till I need to replace it.

Just for my info, where *does* one get a good second-hand garden fork?
I've never seen one! The only ones I've seen second-hand have had bent
tines or needed their handles replacing (these can be had from Bunnings
for a few dollars...)

I don't quite get your point in this discussion. You seem to be offended
by my shopping at a chain store. If I'm satisfied by my purchases, then
- erm - what are you trying to get across?

--
Trish Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Posted by Polly the Parrot on July 15, 2008, 7:54 am
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:03:27 +1000 Trish Brown

> Geez, Otterbot, did you have a punnet of Bunnings seedlings die on
> you or something? You sure don't like 'em! ;-D

Back on Topic! ;-)

My poppies (Papaver L.) have flowered!

At least one, anyway.

Beautiful deep rich red.

I think all they needed was a good drink.

Which reminds me - I am getting a hard earned thirst!

Posted by 0tterbot on July 15, 2008, 9:09 pm
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> Geez, Otterbot, did you have a punnet of Bunnings seedlings die on you or
> something? You sure don't like 'em! ;-D

ha! that must have sounded rantier than i intended, because i do go into
bunnings from time to time!

but having said that, no, i don't like them, & you'll find many people
don't, so i'm not some sort of freak or anything <g>. if they stuck to
selling hardware & tools & big garden things, and without a neurotic
commitment to "underselling" everything on earth to rout their less-funded
competition & persuade people who aren't very bright into leaving with bags
of stuff they never even wanted, i wouldn't have a problem (in fact, i still
recall my first trip to the first big hardware i ever went into - which was
home hardware btw - what a wonderland! i had to be dragged out bodily!!) but
i dislike any organisation which is only all about product creep (WHY
exactly do they have coffee shops, craft aisles and so forth?), flogging
crap you didn't come for (bunnings are big indulgers in "would you like
fries with that?", and, as alluded to, people who become unemployed because
they lost their business to undercutters have only the satisfaction of
buying garden forks for less-than-wholesale at bunnings to ease their pain.

> By all means, go ahead and choke Bunnings out of the marketplace by
> purchasing your forks for $5! Until you succeed, however, I'll be a happy
> customer and purchase mine for $39. The one I've got seems to be quite
> stout and it'll be a while till I need to replace it.
>
> Just for my info, where *does* one get a good second-hand garden fork?
> I've never seen one! The only ones I've seen second-hand have had bent
> tines or needed their handles replacing (these can be had from Bunnings
> for a few dollars...)

many places. most people probably start out in the second-hand-way-of-life
<g> via garage sales, land clearance sales, trash & treasure markets, op
shops, finding stuff on the street (still my favourite method, i must
admit - the price is absolutely right ;-) but once you start looking you
discover the second-hand builders' supplies yards & warehouses and general
household warehouses. we get this sort of thing in canberra so i can't
comment about newcastle, however since canberra has at least 3 huge general
household/building ones, at least two for building supplies only, etc etc,
you must have something there & if you find a good one you won't be sorry.
we know many people now who will offer us stuff, (which is probably taking
the whole thing a bit far - sometimes i wonder if i am perceived as a
second-hand industry all on my own!!!) there is the trading post, local
newspapers, and these days things like freecycle and e-bay. an increasing
number of municipal tips will either allow you a discreet bit of foraging or
(more commonly now) they sell all the good stuff seperately nearby -
sometimes only the really good things, antiques & whatnot, but oftimes
anything that's perfectly good but was taken to the tip by someone lacking
care & imagination. there is a whole massive second-hand economy that you
just tap into & it's all there somewhere.

> I don't quite get your point in this discussion. You seem to be offended
> by my shopping at a chain store. If I'm satisfied by my purchases, then -
> erm - what are you trying to get across?

well, as i said - that implication that bunnings is performing some sort of
public service more holy than st vincent's, and that every other outlet is,
by implication, robbing innocent customers and rubbing their hands with glee
whilst at it. it simply is not this way at all.

first world people (or "consumers" as you called us) have a MASSIVE
multi-faceted and increasing problem that stems from overconsumption.
bunnings (amonst others, obviously!) actively participates in and
facilitates peoples' overconsumption in a particular way, and that is
ethically wrong. so i said so.

really, it's 2008 & this is all a common public debate now. i'm kind of
surprised you are even asking me. the same ethical questions lurk around
woolies, coles, mcdonalds, and so forth. it's not a question of "chain
stores" - i'm on the record as loving spotlight, for example. but i think
one thing (of many) that home gardening (esp food) does for you is to throw
a light on ethical production and gets a person thinking about wider related
issues. it's related to, for example (back on-topic) "ownership" of f1
hybrid seeds or g.m. terminator technology, and so forth; and how some
people allow themselves to become disempowered to the point where
corporations & the state literally run their lives for them. it's a very big
topic & this post is long enough as it is!!! (sorry about that). i didn't
mean to appear to be having a go, what i was doing is asking the question.
you have to answer the question for yourself like everyone does. (now that
the question is hopefully clearer! :-)

i'm glad you're enjoying starting up your veggie garden which i think is
marvellous - like i said i'd be surprised if it does not lead to bigger and
better things & a slightly different way of thinking - it does in most
people. veggie gardening has the power to change everyone's life for the
better. (really!!)
kylie




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